The Problem of Evil combined with the problem of Free Will

[The Grand Nudger]

Is that really the best analogy?  A fish can't decide to be something other than be a fish and do what fishes do, a process which is exploited almost entirely by the fisherman for purely personal gain.

Can they, can they be something other than nutballs?  If they can, they sure don't employ that ability very often.

 You're saying it's the fish's fault for getting caught by the fisherman??

LOL, no Val, I'm saying that it's not my fault that they're fish.  I didn't make them that way.  Yes, I catch crazy fish- but I don't make them crazy fish.  

If we're going to extend the analogy, I would say I'm less of a fisherman and more of an aquatic observer.  I don't want to necessarily catch a fish, but I do want to learn more about how it lives.

That's cool.  I'm at a different point on the spectrum when it comes to relationships with nutters and learning how they live.  I've already observed their behaviors in their natural environment, lol.  I think that they're nutters because of what I;ve learned about their beliefs.  

Were I more interested in the theist POV than the skeptic POV, I'd actually have entered this process with theists and have something to show you right now.  I can't remember, however, the last time I had an in-depth conversation with a theist.  Not because I find the theist impossible with which to have that kind of conversation, but because I find the skeptic side far more fascinating.  I am not religious, but I'm pretty sure I'm a theist, but more importantly, someone who's fascinated by the questions raised by the dichotomy of theism and atheism.

I already figured that, and it's a pretty common song and dance we get around here, from theists, about how atheists are too mean and shouldn't be so mean because that just makes nutters nuttier. Catch any ridicule? I don;t plan on giving your religious ideas deference, and I don;t plan on giving your religious ideas about the deference your religious ideas deserve any deference. If you have ridiculous beliefs...I'm going to do you the service of not lying to your face about what I think of them. If you don't want to catch some ridicule for your beliefs...either don't share them, or get less ridiculous beliefs. It's no one else's responsibility to shield you from the consequences of your own beliefs.........doing so isn't even being polite, it's patronizing.

IF an instance of convivial interaction can't accomplish the same thing, then yes.  That's a big if, IMO

Well then, you apply the one.... I'll apply the other..and between us both we'll get em all.