RE: Which denominations have you spotted on this forum?
August 17, 2017 at 11:34 am
(This post was last modified: August 17, 2017 at 11:59 am by Drich.)
(August 14, 2017 at 3:06 pm)Harry Nevis Wrote:(August 14, 2017 at 2:29 pm)Drich Wrote: No.. I not saying one can not be saved and be a catholic I am simply pointing out why "we" (any of us) can not call ourselves Christian. That is a title only Jesus can award. we can only say we follow Christ or not. Even then that i not a prerequisite to salvation, as I can name a whole bunch of names of men who did not follow Christ but will be in Heaven.
No, you can't name anyone. Well, you COULD, but it'd be just your ego claiming to know the mind of your god. So, go ahead. It'll probably be a riot.
Surely King David a man after God's own Heart who knew nothing of Christ will be in Heaven, if David then soloman his son a man who was given the greatest measure of wisdom a man could have. and if those two the sure the patriarchs again most of which did not even know God in any religious sense, which would make them deists/not belonging to any formal religion.
And then you have the prophet elisha/elija (i forgot which) was just called up to heaven never knowing death. again another deist and not 'christian.'
So yeah I do proclaim to know the mind of God in this matter.. how??? it is spelled out on page, I just use modern terms to describe forgotten/over looked bible passages.
(August 14, 2017 at 3:10 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:(August 14, 2017 at 2:29 pm)Drich Wrote: No.. I not saying one can not be saved and be a catholic I am simply pointing out why "we" (any of us) can not call ourselves Christian. That is a title only Jesus can award. we can only say we follow Christ or not. Even then that i not a prerequisite to salvation, as I can name a whole bunch of names of men who did not follow Christ but will be in Heaven.
Can you share some of those names?
When it comes to the eternal state of a person's soul, I find that it is not my place to cast judgement... and so I always try to take the most charitable assumption.
see above
(August 14, 2017 at 3:43 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote:(August 14, 2017 at 10:04 am)Drich Wrote: Really?!?! do you want clear examples?
1 tim 4:1-5 Warns us of false teachers. one of the first things that identifies a false teacher is a restriction for anyone to marry. This includes those who serve God. Matter of fact we are told that should any of us burn with passion we should marry.
Then there is this whole other issue of worshiping (worship being defined as: verb 1. show reverence and adoration for; honor with religious rites.) Saints and angels. We are clearly told NOT to do this. Yet The R/C church not only endorses this practice but enforces and defines which demi god/saint to pray to for what you are suffering from. These men/saints have no place nor power outside what The Holy Spirit enables them to do. Even Christ as a man was empowered by the Holy Spirit (His words) therefore our worship should be directed to the Holy Spirit/God and not any man. So to pray to or worship anyone but God is a form of idolatry. which again is in direct violation of God's law.
There is also relic worship. that is the empowerment of items deemed holy in that they retain power from the original user. This as people seeking things for salvation or relief and not God, again another form of idolatry.
I can understand how you could see those things as such. My point was that if people took the time to read the Catholic literature careful, they would be surprised at the contrast between what is formally teaches by the Roman Catholic magisteriate and what the laity practice. For example, saints, including Mary, and angels are NOT objects of worship. You can find as much HERE. As for the priestly vows of celebacy I haven't given it much thought. You may be right or there may be subtleties of doctrine of which both you and I are unaware. Maybe they got that one wrong, but I don't think that is a core doctrine.
I've read that before. it basically trys and makes adoration the supreme form of worship reserved only to God where as the lessor forms of worship (supplication, confession ect are divided up by the demigod/saints..
Here's the problem... it wasn't till almost 750 years after chirst established that all worship be directed to God through His example of prayer, did some obscure group of men made this distinction and subdivide worship and what and where it could be directed.
If Jesus Christ was God.. Then why does He need to be corrected by this church consule 750 years after the fact?
Which only further proves my point.
One can't call yourself a follower of Christ if what you believe is based off a teaching of the church rather than a teaching of Christ.
Let's break down the Lord's prayer according to the three subcatigories 'worship' was made into by that church consule
Our Father Who art in Heaven Hollowed be thy Name, Thy Kingdom come thy will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven. (Adoration)
Give us this day our daily bread (supplication)
Forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors (confession)
Remember how this came about. The disciples ask Jesus to teach them to pray. all three forms of worship are exemplified in the Lord prayer. Meaning not only is prayer worship but if you do it right all forms of worship are exemplified in prayer directed to the Father.
This is what Christ taught. if you are a follower of Christ this is what you follow.
The church subdivided worship into three categories only giving God adoration (when Christ gave God all three.) giving certain saints supplication and other/the church itself the power of forgivness
Do you not see a difference between what Christ did and what you are doing?
(August 14, 2017 at 5:47 pm)Thena323 Wrote:(August 14, 2017 at 2:29 pm)Drich Wrote: No.. I not saying one can not be saved and be a catholic I am simply pointing out why "we" (any of us) can not call ourselves Christian. That is a title only Jesus can award. we can only say we follow Christ or not. Even then that i not a prerequisite to salvation, as I can name a whole bunch of names of men who did not follow Christ but will be in Heaven.
Whoa....You mean you can name actual names?
Been sneaking a peek in the Book of Life, haven't you? Admit it!
I promise, I won't tell a soul.
Is Paul Bunyan in there? Dorian Gray? Jimmy Neutron? Please...tell me!
I just want...I mean, I just NEED to know that they'll be okay! Okay?
First names anyway and yes, I have snuck a peek of the book of life, inso far as what God shares of it.
