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Why did god allow people to be born after the fall ?
#25
RE: Why did god allow people to be born after the fall ?
(November 3, 2017 at 11:54 am)alpha male Wrote: So that he could have eternal fellowship with those of us who want it.

Then why not create spiritual beings like himself, after all isn't that the destination for those who believe ?

Quote:Question for OP: Do you think life in this world is a net good, despite the suffering?

For me, yes, but as a species definitely not, firstly two thirds of the world do not subscribe to the Christian world view, and even of those that do many  the bible say many will not be considered real Christians.  Those that do not believe spent eternity in never ending torture suffering for the sins that god knew they would commit before they were even bought into existence. So I would say a net no.

(November 3, 2017 at 5:42 pm)Godscreated Wrote: You need to show some proof of your statement, it sounds more like your imagination than what the Bible tells us. What could an atheist possibly know about the will of God?

Well, I don't believe in god, so for me the question is moot. but as theist are you suggesting that an all knowing  (Omniscience) god created mankind not knowing what would happen? You seem at odds with your fellow Christians here.

Quote: I do know, I have studied the Bible where the answers are, if you haven't seen them that fault belongs to you. The bold by me, this must be something you pulled out of the spiritual hole you live in, an empty hole.

You mean out of the empty hole of the bible ?
"For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways," declares the LORD. "For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways And My thoughts than your thoughts.…
Isaiah 58 8~9

Christians use it all the time, though many unlike me don't know where it is. it has variations of course. So you do claim to know god's purpose? then maybe you can answer my original question without use the old 'his ways are not our ways' or 'his purpose is unknown' card you can't have it both ways.

Quote:God wants to show all that love is greater than sin and without the continuation of the creation that wouldn't be possible.

And the net result is the majority of people who have ever lived going to hell to suffer for eternity, that makes no sense at all.

Quote:Again I study the Bible, I'm not like you who goes around spouting what you want to be true.

Nonsense, I don't believe any of it is true, I'm more interested in why you do

Quote:I didn't say that we couldn't know some of what God's intentions are

Hang on didn't you just say you do know god's purpose because you read the bible.. which is it ?

Quote:I said we can't know it all, you are a typical atheist who has no idea what you are talking about. You think you are smart and logical but you show Christians what you do not know and that is a tremendous amount.

Yes but that is just the point, I'm not claiming to know, I'm asking if you do, and if you do, why do you.

Quote:He is showing His love is greater that sin to all His creation, at the time of judgement no one will have an argument against Him.
Not hardly, God didn't cause the pain and suffering, Adam and Eve got it started and sinful man has continued till this very day.

That's just the point god knew it would happen to billions of innocents that need not be born, so why carry on ?

Quote:God has never be dependent on anything nor anyone, He was living an eternity before creation without anyone else anywhere. We know this from the Bible, you would to if you would just read it instead of spouting what you hear others saying.

Well there was Jesus, the Holy Spirit and myriads of angels hardly no one. But that of course leads to another question, why on earth would god create fallible human beings many of whom he knew would suffer for eternity when what he wanted ultimately was spiritual companionship in heaven ?  And why would god want companionship ? and where does it say god wanted companionship in the bible ?

 
Quote:Those souls were not created yet, they are created at the time of conception.

You seem to be making my point here, not yours

Quote:The future is yours to live as you want to and with sin in your life you should expect pain and suffering.

Well i will also suffer with many Christians as a result of famine, wars, natural disasters

Quote:Even Christians go through pain and suffering because we are not perfect, we are saved for an eternal life with God.

Odd that the good bit is unprovable in the life where you have to make choices.

(November 3, 2017 at 4:00 pm)SteveII Wrote: Then your question is simply why did God create the world we have. Why do you prejudice the question with the phrase "untold suffering". Do you think that on average there is more suffering in the world than not? 

Well yes you could ask that, but god did exactly that he created a world he knew would suffer, not only that he created a world where the majority would go to hell for eternity, why do you think that is creating muddy waters . Do you believe it to be untrue or unfair to mention in some way ?

Quote:A great summary for God's purpose can be found here: https://www.gotquestions.org/purpose-of-man.html

Regarding if God knew mankind would sin: https://www.gotquestions.org/if-God-knew...e-sin.html



What makes you think they are valid points, or answer any questions ?


Quote:What is with you and "untold suffering"? Have you had a difficult life or are you poisoning the well to make your argument stronger? It's depressing!

Well yes, a depressing feature that Christianity has use to great effect to coerce the ignorant, more to the point do you believe the bible to be true when it talks about hell ? or do you believe burning in hell forever does not fit a description of untold suffering ?

Quote:Have you every watched children behave over time? No one needs to teach them to be selfish, disobedient, and willful. It is in our nature to do so.

Then god created us like that, making judging us for those traits a nonsense

Quote:If there is no such thing as free will, then no one is ultimately responsible for their actions. Christianity unravels. 

Well yes, absolutely but free will under duress of hell is not really free will at all

Quote:Apparently God's purpose was not achieved by making two human beings. See above link.
Oh nobody is stopping god if he existed making more, just that he spare the rest of us poor folks eternity in hell. Why not simply create spiritual beings, cut out the middle man so to speak. Why create fragile human beings at all ?
'Those who ask a lot of questions may seem stupid, but those who don't ask questions stay stupid'
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Messages In This Thread
RE: Why did god allow people to be born after the fall ? - by possibletarian - November 3, 2017 at 7:16 pm

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