RE: Why did god allow people to be born after the fall ?
November 7, 2017 at 2:29 pm
(This post was last modified: November 7, 2017 at 2:32 pm by Harry Nevis.)
(November 7, 2017 at 2:24 pm)SteveII Wrote:(November 7, 2017 at 1:16 pm)possibletarian Wrote: Given that god could not get wants without creating a world with what you call free will and a sinful world at the same time, we are not talking about someone who happen to come across circumstances beyond their control, but a god who can control everything.
I want to reply to this one point because it illustrates in one sentence that your main objection is founded on bad reasoning. If God created people with free will, then he has by definition, subordinated his ability to control everything. Free will entails a sinful world. Free will entails that God has subordinated control of everything. Your sentence does not make sense.
Why does free will entail a sinful world? Because god created sin. And, supposedly, he knows what the outcome will be. If he knows I will never become a believer, and knew before I was born, I have no control.
(November 7, 2017 at 2:26 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:(November 7, 2017 at 2:21 pm)Harry Nevis Wrote: "Inherently and completely good"? I think most parents would consider eternally torturing (whether its flames or god's absence, if he's all he's cracked up to be, it would be torture) their kids for disobedience not good. And, if that kid is brought up in an orphanage with only rumors about parents and not knowing they even exist, and the parent shows up to punish them for not doing what they had wanted him to, that would not be considered good, IMO.
Using words like "love", "good" and "just" and applying them to the biblical god makes the way we use them as humans unrecognizable.
God wont force us to accept Him. Its the rejection that causes emptiness that causes suffering. I'm not sure why you would blame Him for that.
I don't. If your god exists, he made the rules. He can do as he pleases. But to use the words loving, all-good, just, compassionate, etc. makes a mockery of these words.
"The last superstition of the human mind is the superstition that religion in itself is a good thing." - Samuel Porter Putnam