(November 8, 2017 at 11:54 am)possibletarian Wrote:(November 8, 2017 at 9:44 am)SteveII Wrote: Definition of Libertarian Free Will: A personal explanation of some basic result R brought about intentionally be person P where this bringing about of R is a basic action A will cite the intention I of P that R occurred and the basic power B that P exercised to bring about R. P, I and B provide a personal explanation of R: agent P brought about R be exercising power B in order to realize intention I as an irreducible teleological goal. (Moreland, Blackwell's Companion to Natural Theology. p 298)
Sin, as the deprivation of good, becomes possible the moment someone has a choice. There is good evidence that it is impossible for any single human to choose perfectly. Ergo we have good reasons to conclude that free will entails sin (at least in humans).
I asked how do you define free will, not a cut and pastes from WLC. break it down for me in easy to understand english
So let me see if i get this right, if god created free will and then gave that free will to humans in full knowledge it would lead to sin, then would you agree god created man in full knowledge that they had no other option than to sin ?
Wasn't WLC. It was J.P. Moreland. In a nutshell, libertarian free will is choosing an action that is not causally determined by factors outside of ourselves.
Yes, God created man knowing that one consequence of free will is sin. However, the positive abilities that only free will allows (thinking, rational beings capable of choice, morality, and a real relationships between creator/creature and creature/creature) are easily argued to be more important the the consequence.
No matter how many times you come at this, you are not going to find a logical problem with this. This is a watered down version of the problem of evil objection which is not a successful argument against theism.
