RE: Why did god allow people to be born after the fall ?
November 8, 2017 at 3:59 pm
(This post was last modified: November 8, 2017 at 4:11 pm by possibletarian.)
(November 8, 2017 at 2:28 pm)SteveII Wrote:(November 8, 2017 at 1:32 pm)Abaddon_ire Wrote: You think slavery is moral? Owning others as property is moral? The bible says so. What do you say?
I think involuntary slavery is immoral. The Bible does not say that slavery is moral.
(November 8, 2017 at 12:21 pm)possibletarian Wrote:
Sin in the Christian context though always means against god, against god by breaking a command, or at the very least falling short of a target.
Romans 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
Outside of the god believing community, falling short of a standard that a god sets has no meaning.
Sin and falling short of the Glory of God are two different things. Just because one leads to the other does not mean that all sin is against God. Most sins are against others people. 70% of the 10 commandments are prohibiting sins against other people.
Even non-religious people recognize immoral behaviour. The concept is not foreign to them.
Well yes that's why i said 'breaking a command', Sinning against a fellow man would involve breaking one law or other of god's at least in spirit. for a believer to do wrong to a fellow man is to break the law and put them not only at odds with another person, but on feeling the guilt, with (their) god as well.
Yes of course non religious people have a moral code, but rarely do they call it sin when broken, neither would they connect the guilt dots back to a deity leaving the concept of having sinned meaningless.
(November 8, 2017 at 1:28 pm)SteveII Wrote:(November 8, 2017 at 12:50 pm)possibletarian Wrote: It does not matter if sin is just one of the factors of free will at all, the bottom line is that god created humanity with no other option than to sin, in other words a world that could only sin. No matter how you torture and twist what you believe, it's a fact.
And why do you believe you have free will, where does the bible specifically mention it ?
Why "torture and twist"? I have no problem with the concept and no problems with the conclusion.
You can't be morally responsible without free will. Moral responsibility is nearly on every page of the Bible.
So it's an intuitive argument then, the bible does not actually mention a 'free will' ?
If free will does not exist, would that mean that your whole argument and scriptures were flawed ?
'Those who ask a lot of questions may seem stupid, but those who don't ask questions stay stupid'
