RE: Why did god allow people to be born after the fall ?
November 17, 2017 at 8:21 am
(This post was last modified: November 17, 2017 at 8:28 am by Harry Nevis.)
(November 16, 2017 at 5:44 pm)SteveII Wrote:(November 16, 2017 at 5:13 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Oh...you misunderstand, it's not necessarily immoral for -him- to make the attempt, even doomed to failure as it always would have been..it's immoral for -you- to accept. Your imaginary friends moral agency isn't under scrutiny here..yours is. Glad to clear that up.
That the better man might lay his life down for your mortgage evading ass isn't exactly all that surprising. That you would would accept the death of the better man and think that this was good, otoh...is. That's the kind of idea that can only come from a person you can never turn your back on. The kind of person that would feed you to the wolves to save his own skin. The kind of person decidedly -unlike- the sacrifice in question.
You are making a category error (among other errors). Jesus was not a man so a comparison is silly. God himself came down to bridge the gap between his holiness and our sin. He is the only one that could have done that. We cannot even pay with our lives to make that happen (a debt is an incomplete metaphor). Accepting his offer in no way infers a lack of character, because paying your own way was never an option.
So we're born, through no fault of our own, with the burden of a debt we can't possibly repay. But the person that saddled us with this debt has a way out. Buying the cure from the poisoner.
(November 16, 2017 at 5:10 pm)alpha male Wrote: You haven't shown that accepting it is immoral. Jesus laid down his life four ours - why was it immoral for him to do so?
No, he didn't. He took the weekend off. You talk like it was equivalent to a mortal giving up their life.
(November 16, 2017 at 7:29 pm)SteveII Wrote: I believe the author of goodness "...so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him won’t perish but will have eternal life." Forgive me if I believe him and not an some random atheist on the internet with a warped understanding of the atonement.
LOL. So it's US that has a warped sense of atonement. Is there a dictionary that defines atonement as having someone else die to pay for a debt you never incurred?
That "author of goodness" crap almost had me snorting my coffee.
(November 17, 2017 at 7:09 am)SteveII Wrote:(November 16, 2017 at 9:12 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: Isn’t it more accurate to say god loaned his son? I mean, he did get better a few days later.
Setting aside death by crucifixion, what was it like for an omniscient mind to physically bear all the sins of mankind past, present, and future all at the same time? When you think about it, God willing endured something unimaginable to us that would change him (by having the experience) in a less than positive way.
Something changed a perfect being in a lees than positive way? He created the sin, and could choose any other way to wipe it out. Can't you see what a infantile story this is?
"The last superstition of the human mind is the superstition that religion in itself is a good thing." - Samuel Porter Putnam
