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Intercessory prayer is pointless
#55
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless
(October 18, 2018 at 11:03 am)RobbyPants Wrote:
(October 17, 2018 at 4:03 pm)Drich Wrote: it would be IF you were the man who had the power to set the standard for mudding dry wall. That's the thing here you are not taking into account. Not only did Jesus not only show any other way of praying he modeled his prayer in the garden of gethsemane before his trial after what he has shown so now he is in a tight spot, he wants to be set free of the burden of the coming cross, but in the end follows the pattern and repeat that the Father's will be done here not his own!
...

What you're saying would only address what I said if and only if Jesus had also explicitly identified that as the only way to pray. He never did that, ergo, there are anywhere from zero to infinity other valid ways to pray. We simply haven't been given enough information, and you're acting as though we have.

This is how we define sets. It's a very common intersection of math and logic. It's axiomatically true. You don't get to argue against it because it goes against your world view.
you are being willfully obtuse. I have shown you the disciples request to be taught how to pray. I showed you Jesus' only recorded prayer which follow the method and the nail in the coffin is the founder of the gentile church identifying only two types of 'prayers.' One being the lords prayer and one being a prayer of petition or supplication. So for the church via phil 4 and paul very own words there are but only two types of prayer petition where we ask God and prayer where we seek God's will.
There is nothing else used in the 1st century church, the rest is pomp and ceremony



Quote:The problem is, everything you said after that part relies on one particular interpretation of the Bible.
not an interpretation sport.. that is what people who are not familiar with the bible say, as they don't ever thig the bible speaks in absolutes and everything is an interpretation. As all of Christianity places Christ as the son of God and he came and died for our sins. what's more it is not enough to know this we must believe and accept this offer of restitution. This is the core of the whole bible based Christian belief system. anything out side of that I do not attempt to speak to nor for. Meaning if you seek to know of or worship the God Of the bible 'my interpretation' sums up the core of all belief concerning the God of the bible. If you do not seek to know or worship the God of the bible then you are speaking to the wrong person.

Quote:No one has ever been able to prove that their interpretation is the correct one.
Here's proof so hold on to something. Proof that we are all wrong about God to one degree or another:comes in the way of analogy Paul used to describe the differences between the churches/denominations he established and works with: 1cor 12:12 to the end of the chapter..
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se...ersion=ESV

In short Paul says the whole of the church is like a human body with Christ as it's head. each part of the body has a unique shape and function. for instance a hand is shaped and functions different than a foot and a foot work differently (has strengths and weakness a ear or leg may not.) So then he asks how can a hand judge a foot, because it does not serve the body and God the same way a hand might? and how ca a foot judge an eye for not doing the same work as the foot does or how can an eye judge an ear because the ear can not see what the eye see or understand God?

We are all different members of the same body all have different functions but serve the same head or master. If we are under Christ then we must simply serve God with all he has given us the ability to use to serve Him. there is no set standard, all must not work and behave like a hand, rather we must work and serve in accordance to what we have been given to understand. As a foot we must see God as a foot and server the body as feet do, as a hand we must seek and see God as a hand and serve the body and God as hands do. We are not required to see or serve God as others do but as we have been given to know God.

This again ties into the parable of the talents. This is a story jesus told about three servants who's master gave one 3 talents (one talent being a measure of gold equal to one years wage) to another he gave two and to the last he gave one (each according to their ability) after a long time the master returns and asked what did you do with the money I gave? the first who got 3 said I invested it and gain 3 more total of 6 the second said I double my money as well and the third said I know you to be a harsh man so i did nothing and buried my money so you could have everything back you gave me... The master cursed the man with one. stripped of what he was given and that was given to the man who had 6.

The take away here is to be faithful/use everything you are given by God to not only increase your station but to grow with God meaing if God gives you to the mind set of a catholic then you are to ride that church till you grow out of it and continue to seek Him, or if you are given to baptist beliefs you are to do everything you can to grown and also get closer to God. if how ever God does not lend you the capasity to grow out of but in a church then you are responsible for that. There is no set bar of acheivement we have two commands the whole of the law boils down to. Love God with all we have and our neighbors as our selves. which again because we are different members of the same body... our levels of understanding and manfest worship will all look differently. some may even say unchristian like... but again that title is something Christ awards and not something we can lable ourselves.

Quote: If one brand of Christianity is based on one person's epistemology on how to interpret the Bible, it is impossible to evaluate that brand as more or less valid than any other. You are so caught up in your own preconceptions of what Christianity is, that you cannot see your hypocrisy in claiming your views as correct and others as false.
you are not even taking the time to read what I have said! or you are too stupid to be in this conversation. dee a dee listen to me... NONE ARE VALID ON THEIR OWN MERITS!!! ALL ARE VALID THROUGH THE REDEMPTION OF CHRIST'S ATONEMENT!!! Meaning we all make mistakes in our worship but again because there is forgiveness when we sin then all Christ centered forms of worship are covered in the same attoneing grace when we worship with all of our might and simply get it wrong!
Quote:That's what a No True Scotsman is; it's just you employing special pleading to define things to fit your world view.

Again, you don't get to argue against logic or definitions because you don't like them.
so sorry sport..
but here is the defination of a no true scotsman: No true Scotsman or appeal to purity is an informal fallacy in which one attempts to protect a universal generalization from counterexamples by changing the definition in an ad hoc fashion to exclude the counterexample.

Again your poor attempt to label my efforts and explanation as a no true scotsman fails because I am not defending a universal generalization of christianity. I have pointed out what the bible defines as Christian. there are rules to christianity if one breaks a rule then they are not apart of said religion. I mention what those rules were in the beginning of this post.. if one can accept those rules then all else is moot. as Christ will forgive any other infractions IF and only if your mistakes are inline with the limits of your capacity.

Meaning we are allowed to be wrong and still be awarded salvation however this does not mean God will bless you or your work. meaning you can be saved by faith alone/never knowing God in this life, but in works and trials comes relationship/Contact with God and proof of everything you believe
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Intercessory prayer is pointless - by RobbyPants - September 27, 2018 at 5:29 pm
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by Minimalist - September 27, 2018 at 5:40 pm
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by Dom - September 27, 2018 at 5:46 pm
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by Joods - September 27, 2018 at 6:53 pm
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by brewer - September 27, 2018 at 7:41 pm
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by The Valkyrie - September 27, 2018 at 7:55 pm
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by KevinM1 - September 27, 2018 at 9:04 pm
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by AFTT47 - September 28, 2018 at 1:07 am
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by RobbyPants - September 28, 2018 at 9:12 am
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by Minimalist - September 27, 2018 at 10:21 pm
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by robvalue - September 28, 2018 at 1:12 am
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by Minimalist - September 28, 2018 at 1:18 am
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by pgrimes15 - October 19, 2018 at 2:49 pm
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - September 28, 2018 at 3:21 am
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by SteveII - September 28, 2018 at 9:53 am
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by Abaddon_ire - September 28, 2018 at 10:13 am
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by RobbyPants - September 28, 2018 at 10:44 am
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by SteveII - September 28, 2018 at 11:32 am
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by SaStrike - September 28, 2018 at 1:57 pm
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by SteveII - September 28, 2018 at 4:08 pm
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by Abaddon_ire - September 28, 2018 at 8:57 pm
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by RobbyPants - September 28, 2018 at 10:00 pm
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by Jehanne - September 29, 2018 at 9:44 am
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by Minimalist - October 11, 2018 at 4:11 pm
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by Bucky Ball - October 11, 2018 at 10:40 pm
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by Angrboda - September 29, 2018 at 10:23 am
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by RobbyPants - September 28, 2018 at 2:39 pm
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by Abaddon_ire - September 28, 2018 at 8:26 pm
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by SteveII - September 28, 2018 at 8:38 pm
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by Jehanne - September 28, 2018 at 9:16 pm
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by Abaddon_ire - September 29, 2018 at 10:54 am
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by Minimalist - September 28, 2018 at 12:02 pm
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by The Grand Nudger - September 28, 2018 at 1:31 pm
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by The Grand Nudger - September 28, 2018 at 2:25 pm
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by purplepurpose - September 28, 2018 at 2:37 pm
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - September 28, 2018 at 2:57 pm
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by Dr H - September 28, 2018 at 5:52 pm
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by The Grand Nudger - September 28, 2018 at 8:40 pm
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by Drich - October 11, 2018 at 3:15 pm
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by RobbyPants - October 11, 2018 at 4:01 pm
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by Drich - October 15, 2018 at 1:53 pm
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by Abaddon_ire - October 15, 2018 at 3:35 pm
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by RobbyPants - October 16, 2018 at 10:45 am
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by Abaddon_ire - October 16, 2018 at 11:24 am
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by Drich - October 17, 2018 at 4:03 pm
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by RobbyPants - October 18, 2018 at 11:03 am
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by Drich - October 18, 2018 at 1:34 pm
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by RobbyPants - October 18, 2018 at 3:24 pm
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by Drich - October 18, 2018 at 4:30 pm
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by Joods - October 18, 2018 at 6:34 pm
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by Drich - October 19, 2018 at 12:26 pm
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by Joods - October 17, 2018 at 4:11 pm
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by Drich - October 18, 2018 at 11:34 am
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by Joods - October 18, 2018 at 12:49 pm
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by Bucky Ball - October 11, 2018 at 4:20 pm
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by RobbyPants - October 12, 2018 at 9:24 am
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by Drich - October 18, 2018 at 2:40 pm
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by Joods - October 18, 2018 at 3:47 pm
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by Bucky Ball - October 18, 2018 at 7:48 pm
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by onlinebiker - October 11, 2018 at 3:22 pm
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by robvalue - October 11, 2018 at 11:38 pm
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by Nay_Sayer - October 18, 2018 at 11:46 am
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by Dr H - October 18, 2018 at 6:52 pm
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by Nay_Sayer - October 18, 2018 at 9:20 pm
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by Dr H - October 19, 2018 at 2:25 pm
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by Nay_Sayer - October 19, 2018 at 4:30 pm
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by Dr H - October 22, 2018 at 2:33 pm
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by Nay_Sayer - October 23, 2018 at 1:10 pm
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by Minimalist - October 18, 2018 at 12:18 pm
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by RobbyPants - October 18, 2018 at 4:50 pm
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by Drich - October 19, 2018 at 10:54 am
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by RobbyPants - October 19, 2018 at 2:05 pm
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by Drich - October 22, 2018 at 2:37 pm
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by RobbyPants - October 23, 2018 at 8:42 am
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by Joods - October 19, 2018 at 12:54 pm
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by Drich - October 22, 2018 at 11:17 am
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by Bucky Ball - October 19, 2018 at 1:50 pm
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by Drich - October 22, 2018 at 1:06 pm
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by Abaddon_ire - October 22, 2018 at 2:39 pm
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by Drich - October 23, 2018 at 9:18 am
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by Bucky Ball - October 23, 2018 at 2:45 pm
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by Drich - October 23, 2018 at 4:31 pm
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by Bucky Ball - October 23, 2018 at 6:49 pm
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by Drich - October 24, 2018 at 11:06 am
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by Bucky Ball - October 24, 2018 at 2:02 pm
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by Bucky Ball - October 23, 2018 at 10:42 pm
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by Dr H - October 23, 2018 at 4:41 pm
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by KevinM1 - October 23, 2018 at 10:05 pm
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by Joods - October 23, 2018 at 10:16 pm
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by Minimalist - October 23, 2018 at 11:03 pm
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by CarveTheFive - October 24, 2018 at 1:16 pm
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by Minimalist - October 24, 2018 at 1:47 pm
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by Minimalist - October 24, 2018 at 2:21 pm
RE: Intercessory prayer is pointless - by Minimalist - October 27, 2018 at 6:33 pm

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