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falsifying the idea of falsification
#70
RE: falsifying the idea of falsification
(April 1, 2020 at 6:09 pm)Belacqua Wrote:
(April 1, 2020 at 5:35 pm)Agnostico Wrote: Big Popper was a huge critic of the theory of evolution his whole life. He called it a pseudoscience and tautology among other things
Only later before he died did he say he accepted the theory though he never believed it or considered it to be scientific

ToE is a hypothesis or a philosophical theory, not a scientific one.

I like the idea of calling him "Big Popper." 

As I understand it, though, he didn't say that evolution itself was not falsifiable. He did say at one point that the mechanism, natural selection, was a tautology and therefore not falsifiable, but he changed his mind on that and explained why he had gotten it wrong.

https://ncse.ngo/what-did-karl-popper-re...-evolution

https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/pd...086/691119


Im a big fan of Big Popper.
My favourite scientists are all practical types like Newton, Tesla, Da Vinci, Edison but Karl is the acception as i slide him into 4 or 5.

His influence on modern science is just so profound on so many levels. He had many critics as well, the best one being when he was asked if his falsification concept was falsifiable. It's easy to dismiss his whole concept of falsification on the fact that it isn't falsifiable. But i'll post the interview because he refutes that claim comprehensively.

He wrote many books, I only read the Schism in Physics as it relates to my engineering background.

His best early stuff was his conclusion on the science that Albert Einstein was conducting and the science that Sigmund Freud was conducting. That was the first big stir he created. A part of his career worth reading about.

He only became interested in Darwinism later on and never wrote a book exclusively on the subject. though he did write and lecture about it a lot

Firstly Poppers works have been used and abused by both Creationists and Darwinists when he really accepted neither. At times he can appear to contradict himself. To be honest there is not a real unified consensus on his position when he died. He is such a deep and critical thinker he would lay out one view then try to refute his own theory. 
He was the enemy of certainty, a real skeptic. Also im not pushing any creation theory here either. 
If the OP knew more about Popper he could use a lot of his material for his theistic arguments or to discredit Darwinism, but the OP hasn't really a clue

The first link u posted is one that ive read before and its really good with quotes of his. The 2nd is just too long
Ok so we aren't talking about evolution within species like the Gallapagos finches. We are talking about natural selection through random mutation (though im not too sure random mutation even was part of the theory then) and common ancestry which says all life evolved from one cell.

Popper did say evolution was not falsifiable
"I have come to the conclusion that Darwinism is not a testable scientific theory, but a metaphysical research programme" 1976
"My solution was that the doctrine of natural selection is a most successful metaphysical research programme" 1978
He also said
[i]"What Darwin showed us was that the mechanism of natural selection can, in principle, simulate the actions of the Creator and His purpose and design, and that it can also simulate rational human action directed towards a purpose or aim."[/i]

Creationists went wild and championed him as the messiah of truth, using him as a propaganda figure.
Darwinists took it as an insult which it wasn't cos he explains that metaphysical thought is essential in science. 
Darwinists were infuriated and pressured him to retract what he had said. i'll link references to all this

The claim that he changed has some truth but if you read the quotes they are using to support this its not convincing
From the link u posted he says
"I have changed my mind about the testability and logical status of the theory of natural selection; and I am glad to have an opportunity to make a recantation. . . ." 1978
It looks like his joined the consensus but he immediately follows with
"The theory of natural selection may be so formulated that it is far from tautological. In this case it is not only testable, but it turns out to be not strictly universally true. There seem to be exceptions, as with so many biological theories; and considering the random character of the variations on which natural selection operates, the occurrence of exceptions is not surprising" 1978
Then later in 1981
[i]"What Darwin showed us was that the mechanism of natural selection can, in principle, simulate the actions of the Creator and His purpose and design, and that it can also simulate rational human action directed towards a purpose or aim."[/i]
So as u can see he never actually ever says in definitive terms that he accepted Darwinism as a scientific theory
Those quotes are all from your link were the writer is trying to show us that popper did accept evolution as a scientific theory
You can try find a quote of him saying it but good luck finding it cos i only ever found very uncertain quotes like these

He died in 1994 but interestingly he kind of backed away from the debate and rarely spoke about it after the early 80's
In 1986 he gave a lecture but Karl never published it. Instead it got locked away in Big Popper's secret archives. It was found 35 years later, long after he had died and released. 
Big Popper came back from the dead, Born Again, with a totally different lyrical flow.

"He proposed a completely radical interpretation of Neo-Darwinism, essentially rejecting the Modern Synthesis by proposing that organisms themselves are the source of the creative processes of evolution, not random mutations in DNA"
His second major criticism of Darwinism was
"That is the fact that organisms can push evolution by choosing new niches and causing changes in their phenotypes without changing DNA. Phenotypic plasticity is another inconsistency of Neo-darwinism gene-centric view"

Big Popper Born Again Reference

Another trump card is this interview in 1992, 2 years before he died

"Early in his career, the philosopher Karl Popper called evolution via natural selection “almost a tautology” and “not a testable scientific theory but a metaphysical research program.” Attacked for these criticisms, Popper took them back. But when I interviewed him in 1992, he blurted out that he still found Darwin’s theory dissatisfying”One ought to look for alternatives!” Popper exclaimed, banging his kitchen table"

Reference to quote
Detail of the interview

With all that said the theory of evolution actually had nothing to do with Karl poppers creation of the falsification method
This is a neat 8min presentation of the greatest moment of his career, comparing Einstein to Freud and the main tenants of his method which I hold as Gospel 





Fuckin hell i ended up writing a book. Sorry about that. Hope it wasn't boring... LoL
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Messages In This Thread
falsifying the idea of falsification - by Drich - March 25, 2020 at 1:56 pm
RE: falsifying the idea of falsification - by Drich - March 25, 2020 at 2:18 pm
RE: falsifying the idea of falsification - by Abaddon_ire - March 26, 2020 at 8:29 am
RE: falsifying the idea of falsification - by no one - March 25, 2020 at 2:04 pm
RE: falsifying the idea of falsification - by Fireball - March 25, 2020 at 2:28 pm
RE: falsifying the idea of falsification - by Drich - March 26, 2020 at 11:54 am
RE: falsifying the idea of falsification - by onlinebiker - March 25, 2020 at 2:53 pm
RE: falsifying the idea of falsification - by brewer - March 25, 2020 at 6:06 pm
RE: falsifying the idea of falsification - by chimp3 - March 25, 2020 at 6:37 pm
RE: falsifying the idea of falsification - by Drich - March 26, 2020 at 12:08 pm
RE: falsifying the idea of falsification - by Nay_Sayer - March 26, 2020 at 12:26 pm
RE: falsifying the idea of falsification - by chimp3 - March 26, 2020 at 4:41 pm
RE: falsifying the idea of falsification - by Drich - March 27, 2020 at 3:45 pm
RE: falsifying the idea of falsification - by chimp3 - March 27, 2020 at 6:36 pm
RE: falsifying the idea of falsification - by Belacqua - March 27, 2020 at 7:25 pm
RE: falsifying the idea of falsification - by chimp3 - March 27, 2020 at 9:02 pm
RE: falsifying the idea of falsification - by Belacqua - March 27, 2020 at 9:05 pm
RE: falsifying the idea of falsification - by chimp3 - March 27, 2020 at 9:23 pm
RE: falsifying the idea of falsification - by Paleophyte - March 25, 2020 at 9:40 pm
RE: falsifying the idea of falsification - by Belacqua - March 26, 2020 at 7:38 am
RE: falsifying the idea of falsification - by Belacqua - March 28, 2020 at 7:34 am
RE: falsifying the idea of falsification - by Abaddon_ire - March 28, 2020 at 5:47 pm
RE: falsifying the idea of falsification - by GUBU - March 29, 2020 at 6:04 am
RE: falsifying the idea of falsification - by Belacqua - March 29, 2020 at 7:28 am
RE: falsifying the idea of falsification - by Belacqua - March 28, 2020 at 8:38 pm
RE: falsifying the idea of falsification - by Paleophyte - March 26, 2020 at 10:55 pm
RE: falsifying the idea of falsification - by Belacqua - March 27, 2020 at 8:54 am
RE: falsifying the idea of falsification - by Drich - March 26, 2020 at 12:28 pm
RE: falsifying the idea of falsification - by GUBU - March 26, 2020 at 4:57 am
RE: falsifying the idea of falsification - by Mr Greene - March 26, 2020 at 7:56 am
RE: falsifying the idea of falsification - by Nay_Sayer - March 26, 2020 at 12:03 pm
RE: falsifying the idea of falsification - by Paleophyte - March 28, 2020 at 7:37 pm
RE: falsifying the idea of falsification - by Drich - March 26, 2020 at 4:07 pm
RE: falsifying the idea of falsification - by no one - March 27, 2020 at 2:47 pm
RE: falsifying the idea of falsification - by Nay_Sayer - March 27, 2020 at 4:14 pm
RE: falsifying the idea of falsification - by Mr Greene - March 28, 2020 at 8:42 pm
RE: falsifying the idea of falsification - by Ranjr - April 1, 2020 at 3:12 pm
RE: falsifying the idea of falsification - by Mr Greene - March 29, 2020 at 7:40 am
RE: falsifying the idea of falsification - by Belacqua - March 29, 2020 at 7:48 am
RE: falsifying the idea of falsification - by Mr Greene - March 29, 2020 at 7:49 am
RE: falsifying the idea of falsification - by Belacqua - March 29, 2020 at 8:01 am
RE: falsifying the idea of falsification - by Drich - April 1, 2020 at 12:49 pm
RE: falsifying the idea of falsification - by Ranjr - April 1, 2020 at 4:02 pm
RE: falsifying the idea of falsification - by Agnostico - April 1, 2020 at 5:35 pm
RE: falsifying the idea of falsification - by Belacqua - April 1, 2020 at 6:09 pm
RE: falsifying the idea of falsification - by Agnostico - April 2, 2020 at 7:08 am
RE: falsifying the idea of falsification - by Belacqua - April 2, 2020 at 7:50 am
RE: falsifying the idea of falsification - by GUBU - April 2, 2020 at 4:39 pm
RE: falsifying the idea of falsification - by Ranjr - April 1, 2020 at 5:43 pm
RE: falsifying the idea of falsification - by Drich - April 2, 2020 at 10:52 am
RE: falsifying the idea of falsification - by Drich - April 2, 2020 at 12:19 pm
RE: falsifying the idea of falsification - by Drich - April 2, 2020 at 12:58 pm
RE: falsifying the idea of falsification - by Drich - April 2, 2020 at 2:02 pm
RE: falsifying the idea of falsification - by Mr Greene - April 2, 2020 at 1:36 pm
RE: falsifying the idea of falsification - by Drich - April 2, 2020 at 2:11 pm
RE: falsifying the idea of falsification - by Drich - April 2, 2020 at 2:18 pm
RE: falsifying the idea of falsification - by Drich - April 2, 2020 at 3:15 pm
RE: falsifying the idea of falsification - by Drich - April 2, 2020 at 4:06 pm
RE: falsifying the idea of falsification - by Drich - April 3, 2020 at 1:35 pm
RE: falsifying the idea of falsification - by no one - April 2, 2020 at 4:16 pm
RE: falsifying the idea of falsification - by Agnostico - April 2, 2020 at 7:57 pm
RE: falsifying the idea of falsification - by Belacqua - April 3, 2020 at 12:50 am
RE: falsifying the idea of falsification - by Belacqua - April 3, 2020 at 4:07 am
RE: falsifying the idea of falsification - by GUBU - April 3, 2020 at 3:01 pm
RE: falsifying the idea of falsification - by Belacqua - April 3, 2020 at 5:26 pm
RE: falsifying the idea of falsification - by LastPoet - April 3, 2020 at 2:03 pm
RE: falsifying the idea of falsification - by Mr Greene - April 3, 2020 at 6:24 pm

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