How far reaching are God's powers?

[MilesAbbott81]

@MilesAbbott81

Are you at all concerned with the issues our present lack of free will would pose for any assertion that we are, then, deservedly x for our sins?  

Bit like punishing a toaster for making bagels, isn't it?  Are we morally responsible for that which we cannot change, that which we cannot fail to do, that which we cannot fail to be?  Beyond issues of god's moral state, in what way do we possess moral agency or do we possess moral responsibilities in this very specific context if we do not possess a meaningfully free will within said context?

A shorter version - how can we be meaningfully good or bad, in that case?

We can't be meaningfully good or bad; it's not within our power at all. If we are good, it's because God has given us the grace to defy our sin nature; if we are evil, it's simply because we act according to our nature.

And yes, you can make the argument that God is at least partly responsible for the evils we commit, and that He must take into account, at least to some degree, that we can't help but be evil.

And He does. For one, the Scriptures tell us that He does not punish our sins as we deserve (Psalm 103:10). We all, most likely, deserve to die many times over for the evils we've done. Yet we live, as we must, in order to learn. It also helps matters that the evils we commit serve as punishment against those who deserve it.

But that doesn't excuse our sin. Yes, we were made evil, but does that excuse the evil you've done? And here is the key difference between us and God: God allows evil for the greater good, in fact He uses it expressly to do good. Our intentions are not for good, but for evil, and that's why we are unrighteous and God righteous.

I realize that in the end it's difficult to accept because it seems unfair, and to a degree it is, but when you take God's intention into account you must exonerate Him of sin.

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God has no restrictions. He could certainly make evil choices if He chose to. Again, He is God, and therefore free to do as He pleases. But it's not in His nature to do evil, therefore He doesn't do evil.

Any possible world in which God chooses evil is a world in which he is not God, by definition.  So there are only two possibilities: a) worlds where God does not do evil, and b) worlds where God does not exist as God.  So God could not choose to do evil and still be God because that would be a logical contradiction.  The only possibilities for a good God are not doing evil.  He couldn't choose evil.  That's simply false.  It's a logical impossibility.

No, your premise is incorrect because you say "God chooses evil." God has never chosen evil. He chooses good through evil.

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That's total nonsense. First, you don't know that. Decond, God that uses Hitler to do good is not good because if he was good he would have found better ways.

Well, obviously you can claim I don't "know" anything at all, that doesn't mean you're correct. You say God would've found better ways, but who are you to say what is the best way? You're a worm, Fake Messiah, compared to God. You're incapable of even telling right from wrong, much less the best way to go about performing an act of salvation. You would be a fake messiah indeed to even try.

And even more good would have come out if there wasn't ww2.

Again, you know this how, exactly? Are you God? We must argue from the premise that God exists and is behind such events as WWII or the argument is pointless, so it's on you to prove somehow that you have a better way of doing things. How would you go about correcting all of the depravity of the Weimar Republic and effecting the rebirth of Israel?

No, you are limited and ignorant because you completely ignore suffering and pain of millions of people just so you can happily worship your deity.

I've never discounted or ignored the suffering and pain of millions of people, but I do find something interesting in people referring to the multitudes God has slain, as though numbers matter.

Numbers don't matter, because we all suffer and die individually. Numbers do not compound the suffering of the individual. Moreover, Christ also suffered and died individually, just as anyone else. So the point becomes moot, really.