RE: How far reaching are God's powers?
November 11, 2020 at 8:36 pm
(This post was last modified: November 11, 2020 at 8:39 pm by MilesAbbott81.)
(November 11, 2020 at 8:24 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: -which is pretty much where I'm hoping to get with our christian friend, regardless of his sub-cult. If we're not moral agents, then how do we envision our moral responsibilities?
Well, I'll answer you once again for Happy Skeptic's sake.
Not having a choice doesn't absolve guilt. God takes that into account, but we still commit the evil acts even though we know better, and how does one learn to choose good without suffering the consequences of not choosing to do good?
It's a process of learning, and that's why we have to suffer for our choices. I really don't see this as complicated. It's not easy to accept, but it's not complicated.
(November 11, 2020 at 8:36 pm)HappySkeptic Wrote: So you are not a Calvinist, but I see little difference to the moral argument.
Grace is an act of God. It is God's choice, not a person's. If God chooses to harden GrandNudger's heart, then he has no say over the matter.
You either say that good choices are discernible by all, and therefore people are moral agents. Or you say that God chooses to enlighten the minds of some as to what "good" is, because we can't know by ourselves, and therefore it is God's choice as to who gets enlightened and to what. In that case we are not true moral agents.
Presumably God has hardened my heart, and I am cut off from the "Truth". Not my choice.
Good choices are mostly discernable by all. In fact, I'd say that when one truly can't discern good choices from evil ones, God doesn't hold us to account for those, or at least He shows much mercy. We can clearly discern that stealing is wrong, murder is wrong, etc., because God gave us consciences.
What we can't do is choose to obey our conscience...that occurs only by God's grace.