Kim Jong-Il is dead.

[Cinjin]

...and yet somehow christianity makes SOOO much more sense. jesus fucking christ - will people never see religion for the disease it is?

[Justtristo]

Without this religion of the "Dear Leader" the regime in North Korea would have either collapsed or "reformed" into one similar to Vietnam or China decades ago.

I would be surprised if the regime in North Korea collapsed anytime in the foreseeable future.

[helmespc]

Without this religion of the "Dear Leader" the regime in North Korea would have either collapsed or "reformed" into one similar to Vietnam or China decades ago.

I would be surprised if the regime in North Korea collapsed in the next few years.

I think the only way we see something radical happen there is if the higher-ups in the government turn against Kim Jong Un or there is a military coup. If that doesn't happen in the next year, it probably won't... at which point we're looking at a long time before another leadership change happens there.

[Minimalist]

...and yet somehow christianity makes SOOO much more sense. jesus fucking christ - will people never see religion for the disease it is?

You've spoken to some of the born-again assholes we have infecting this board and you can still ask that question?


Pay attention, man!!!

[DeistPaladin]

Pity Hitchens didn't live to hear the news. I'd have loved to hear his reaction.

[5thHorseman]

His only constant hate was totalitariasm, as was Vaclav Havel', both die 1-4 days before Kim, how sad.

---

Marx was never a personality cult. Lenin wasn't a personality cult either, that came in with Stalin, and was then removed by Krushchev's de-Stalinisation in the late 50's/ early 60's. Mao Zedong was also a personality cult, although none quite as cerazy as the Kim dynasties.

[Mister Agenda]

The regime depends on keeping the populace ignorant of the rest of the world, which depends on an iron grip on information. That can't last forever.

[Anomalocaris]

Marx was never a personality cult. Lenin wasn't a personality cult either, that came in with Stalin, and was then removed by Krushchev's de-Stalinisation in the late 50's/ early 60's. Mao Zedong was also a personality cult, although none quite as cerazy as the Kim dynasties.

There might not have been a marx cult in his life time, but there certainly were very intense ones once communists became established in power.

In his life time, cult of Lenin was inconvenienced somewhat by the fact tha Bolsheviks wasn't quite as free of overt internal dessent and external competition in Russia as they would be later. But that it existed is shown by the fact that despite having been turned into a complete mental vegetable by a series of severe strokes, the Bolsheviks maintained the illusion amongst the rank and file that Lenin remained in control. Furthermore, in the power struggle that followed his incapacitation, Stalin thought the most effective propaganda tool on his own behalf were doctored photos showing himself receiving instruction at Lenin's bedside.

Krushchev's de-Stalinisation simply dismantled the personality cult around Stalin. It didn't even seek to weaken the cult around Lenin, Engles or Marx.

In fact, it could be argued that the dismantling of personality cult around the current Soviet leader actually contributed greatly to the eventual disillusionment of the bulk of soviet intellectual circle with the Soviet system, the attempt at parastroika and glosnost under Gorbechev, and the eventual unraveling of the Soviet system.

Under stalin, the faith in the Soviet system was sustained by the belief in the universal superhuman genius of Stalin himself, anointed by the mortal god lenin himself, and the faith the the bad he inflicted is the necessary price for the good, and the good promises infinite reward in prepetuity in a soon to be established communist utopia (kinda like christian heaven, with added benefit that you don't need to suck Jesus' dick). Under Krushchev the faith was sustained by the appearence that the communist system could examine itself, correct its errors and therefore susceptible to improvement and deserve another chance. Under Breznev the faith went away. Another chance hadn't led to anything good.

[kılıç_mehmet]

Poor guy.

[Ashendant]

He died at 69 with fatigue

(i love how his death is going to be turned into a sex pun)