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Matthew's attempt to counter the rumor that the disciples stole the body
#21
RE: Matthew's attempt to counter the rumor that the disciples stole the body
We could also contemplate if Horton really heard a Who, and it would be equally as meaningful.
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#22
Matthew's attempt to counter the rumor that the disciples stole the body
@ Barre, you do realize that this is an Atheist forum you're on.
Just checking....
[Image: mybannerglitter06eee094.gif]
If you're not supposed to ride faster than your guardian angel can fly then mine had better get a bloody SR-71.
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#23
RE: Matthew's attempt to counter the rumor that the disciples stole the body
(December 25, 2011 at 1:40 pm)Barre Wrote: According to Matt 28:11-15, a rumor was circulating regarding how the body of Jesus came to be missing. That the body was indeed missing is necessarily presupposed by the rumor which could be dismissed by merely visiting Jesus’ tomb. As a result, two competing reports emerged to account for its absence. While the Jewish authorities maintained that the Christians stole the body, the Christians urged that Jesus had come alive and then vacated the tomb. The dispute may be easily decided by examining the passage mentioned above:

While they [the woman who had seen Jesus] were on their way, some of the guard went off to the city to tell the chief priests all that had happened [that the angel of the Lord had appeared and terrified them, causing them to faint]. These held a meeting with the elders and, after some discussion, handed a considerable sum of money to the soldiers with these instructions, ‘This is what you must say, "His disciples came during the night and stole him away while we were asleep." And should the governor come to hear of this, we undertake to put things right with him ourselves and to see that you do not get into trouble. The soldiers took the money and carried out their instructions, and to this day that is the story among the Jews.

The question that exposes the truth of the matter is: Is there any probable explanation as to how the author knew about the bribe? There is none. It is pure fabrication, a lie intended to discredit the rumor that the disciples stole the body but tracing its origin to a secret meeting of his own concoction. His intention is, in fact, to cover up what he knew to be the truth, the eleven did indeed steal the body.

GC Wrote:There is a very good reason that Matthew knew what went on in the Council, one of the followers of Jesus was a member of the Council, Joseph of Arimathea.

The attempt to discredit the report of the theft is again found in an earlier episode found in Matt 27:62-66:

Next day, that is, when Preparation Day was over, the chief priests and the Pharisees went in a body to Pilate and said to him, "Your Excellency, we recall that this impostor said, while he was still alive, "After three days I shall rise again." Therefore, give the order to have the sepulchre kept secure until the third day, for fear that his disciples come and steal him away and tell the people, "He has rise from the dead." This last piece of fraud would be worse than what went before." You may have your guard said Pilate to them. ‘Go and make all as secure as you know how.’ So they went and make the sepulchre secure, putting seals on the stone and mounting a guard.

Unlike the account of the bribe, it is remotely possible that a Christian or Christian sympathizer may have somehow "overheard" this exchange. But such a conclusion is most desperate and can in no way be regarded as the most probable thesis. In all likelihood, the author here also could not have been privy to the exchange between Pilate and the Jewish leadership. On the contrary, the bribe episode lends great weight to the conclusion that the author is here also lying in order to refute the report that the disciples stole and body in order to support their claim that Jesus had risen from the dead. Our author would have us believe that they could not have stolen the body because a guard had been posted to prevent this very thing. Therefore, the bribe and the guard episodes are one in their intent, to discredit the notion that the disciples stole the body. That there is no doubt that the author is fabricating his account is shown by his unbelievable claim that the guards who at one minute fainted in terror at the appearance of the Angel of the Lord are in the next quite ready to lie about it for money.

GC Wrote:Again Matthew had a man on the inside and I see no reason to doubt that Joseph would not have told Matthew what had taken place.

These considerations point to the conclusion that there was neither a bribe nor a guard posted and that the missing body of Jesus is accounted for by the thesis that its absence was indeed the result of theft. In addition, the competing thesis that Jesus arose rests solely upon the testimony of his followers and who further maintained that the supposedly living Jesus had fairly soon and for some hidden reason conveniently departed to heaven, the realm of the blessed dead! In sum, the thesis advanced by the Jews to explain the missing body is obviously the more probable one. The disciples stole the body and agreed to testify that they had seen their risen Lord. They lied just as our author in Matthew has lied.

GC Wrote:Since Matthew had a man on the inside that could give him these details of what had happened it is only logical that he would report their actions so the truth would be known. If the disciples had stolen the body then why didn't the priest just go to the tome and come outright saying they had done such a thing and had it recorded for everyone to read, could be that they knew what really happened and were afraid of what God might bring upon them. In other accounts in the NT it's said that many of the religious leaders came to be christians. Ever wonder why those who chose to have Christ killed would become a follower of Christ, could be when they heard what the guards had seen they were so effected by it that they became believers they knew that they had been wrong all along.

The resurrection of Jesus was a hoax that began two days after Jesus death and was still being propagated by the author of Matthew perhaps over as much as generation later when his gospel was composed with its clever yet patently impossible explanation for the missing body that the disciples stole and then buried somewhere near Jerusalem. They then proceeded to proclaim some very pretty lies and called them the gospel.[

GC Wrote:You have not shown that the resurrection was a hoax, that Matthew lied about what happened nor, have you given any account of why the priest did not go to the grave and see for themselves that the body of Christ was gone. There is a good reason they did not they already knew He was not there. You should do some historical research about the cloth (napkin) that was on Jesus face and why it was found placed as it was. It makes no sense that the disciples would have taken the body of their dead leader, they would have reacted just as the gospels described, why would they keep a lie going and put their lives into jeopardy for someone who was in a grave, dead. I know that I would not have, actually I would have left the place to keep people from laughing at me.

God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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#24
RE: Matthew's attempt to counter the rumor that the disciples stole the body
Still deep in dream land, G-C.

The whole story is bullshit. A fantasy to fool the gullible of which you are a charter member.
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#25
RE: Matthew's attempt to counter the rumor that the disciples stole the body
GC! You talk about that like you do, and it will make people think you believe it actually happened... which is, of course, utterly ridiculous. There is a reason this crap isn't in world history text books... let's face it.
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#26
RE: Matthew's attempt to counter the rumor that the disciples stole the body
G-C is one of those people who just has to think his bullshit is real.
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