John's Gospel and "The Jews"

[Minimalist]

I believe it was Ehrman who did quite a thorough job showing how anti-semitism grew as the so-called gospels were written and expanded upon.

Someday I may have to go looking for that discussion just so G-C's head can explode. G-C always reminds me of the old Archie Bunker line where Mike says

"Jesus was Jewish." And Archie replies

"Only on his mother's side."

[reverendjeremiah]

The reason John's gospel is different from the other three, his gospel is written more as a gospel of love and of coarse this by nature make is seem more refined.

"A gospel of love"?

Are you admitting that the Gospels were written by humans?

[Minimalist]

The reason John's gospel is different from the other three, his gospel is written more as a gospel of love and of coarse this by nature make is seem more refined.

Refined? You must be joking.

It is filled with magical horseshit. It is the Harry Potter of gospels.

[reverendjeremiah]

The reason John's gospel is different from the other three, his gospel is written more as a gospel of love and of coarse this by nature make is seem more refined.

Refined? You must be joking.

It is filled with magical horseshit. It is the Harry Potter of gospels.

In the spirit of good discussion, I was the one who said "refined" in this context. GC was merely responding in like term.

I was planning on being a bit more descriptive of the term "refined" as the chat went by, in which I was very much going to include that the fantastical parts of the story were also more refined as well.

[DeistPaladin]

The verses you have presented do indeed show that there was a separation between Jesus, his disciples and the Jewish nation and I believe there is a reason for this, probably more, but we'll stay with your premise, the gospel was written several years after Christ's time on earth but, in the same century.

Several years? No. Mark, the first of the series, was written after 70 CE according to Christian apologists themselves (in reality, it could have been later but we'll take the Christians' word for it for now).

My contention is that John was written much later, as in 2nd century at the earliest.

By what is stated in the book of Acts the growth of Christianity took off and grew extremely fast in a very short time with many Gentiles as part of Christianity.

See my new thread on the nonsense of Acts. You must either be crazy or immediately dismiss Acts as mythology after just reading the book once.

John also had time to look back on those years and see what had transpired. The Christians also viewed themselves as christian and not as a nationality, read the books Paul wrote and I think you will see this. So I believe that it would be only natural that John used the word Jews in the way he did.

Especially since he came along much later when Christianity had developed. The story got better with the telling. John the Baptist became increasingly subservient with each Gospel, Pilate more reluctant to crucify Jesus and Jesus more one with Yahweh. Trinitarian concepts apparently had not come along until John was penned, as they certainly don't exist in the Synoptic Gospels.

All this I will cover in more detail in my John vs. the Synoptics thread (stay tuned).

[Cosmic Ape]

First of all my signature is posted on an adult sight so no children should see it.

But, you or people from your church tell that to children do you not? dont tell me you dont proselytize and instill fear in people. I mean you're doing it on an Atheist forum...

Second I've taught children and I never taught hell, I've always taught that, the love God has for us is why we should love and trust him with our lives. You should get to know a person before accusing him/her of teaching something they do not teach.

You prostelitize in your sig about strolling through hell proves that faith is everything. What a crock of shit, what has faith ever accomplished that didnt have the same success rate as chance? same with prayer and wishful thinking. How did praying work for people in Katrina or Cancer victims? Or telling peoeple not to take certain treatments because of their religious convictions and die because they refuse help? You cant survive a natural disaster and say "hey look, god saved that one child" and plainly ignore the slaughtering (which it would be if a god was in charge) of thousands of other innocent children that also died in the disaster.

Evolution might work for you, as for me it is a worthless theory that holds no water.

Wow, congratulations what a stupid thing to say no offense. A theory in Science is the graduation point of an idea and no credible Scientist even questions Evolution through Natural Selection anymore, its already the best known answer for the origins of the cosmos, we would have to learn something huge to change our minds on this one, its not going away no matter how hard you plug your ears and say lalalala. It's not some "theory" in the religious sense, and in fact religion isnt even a valid theory because IT actually holds no water under controlled experiments and has never been proven, just asserted. You as a theist are saying that you have to "Believe in Evolution" which is asinine when Science doesnt hold a belief system because Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away, no matter how much you dont like it.

As long as I and the children I've taught obey the moral laws Jesus taught then we will be in good standing with the laws of this country, since evolution and scripture do not go hand in hand this should not be possible. So it seems to me the laws this country has and the Bible agree with each other, could be that our laws for the most part are biblical based, I will admit that evolution theory is creeping into our laws and that's a sad thing.

Newsflash, Morals evolved too, the human species is about 100,000+ years old and it took us a long time to finally get our shit together and make a functioning society, and you could still argue that we are still in some aspects stuck in the dark ages. And are you aware that morals arnt exclusive to Homo-Sapiens? but other animals have morals as well, some like Elephants that exhibit very human-like emotions like empathy, love, fear, deep friendship, mourning the dead, and we were once at a more primitive point like that and had to evolve to a point where we wanted to only associate ourselves with people who wouldnt kill, rape and steal from us and we would either lock them up (more recent) enslave them (less recent) or kill them (least recent).

Seems to me that my signature has you shaken, you're a grown up can't you handle reality, if not you are in the wrong place.

Yes, I'm generally concerned that people put Ancient Mythology over Modern Science. Religion is a neurological disorder, you can help it, you just need to be helped with basic Science education.

For people whom you say could not read they did a good job of writing down the Word of God. Also the illiterate Arabs you mentioned had nothing to do with the Bible, the Bible was written by the Jewish people. Sorry to tell you but, most christians I know believe the Bible is the truth sent to us through man, science is a wonderful thing but, it will never be able to understand God, who is omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient.

Jews arent arabs?... Jews arent a race, dude. And I bet you have that chessy idea of Jesus being white with straight hair and blue.. its beyond laughable since he was a jew from the middle east where its hot as fuck and almost every jew is brown or at least pretty tan with curly black hair. But then again I'm not even sure he existed in the first place so I digress.

And if your god is omnipotent why doesnt he heal amputees and just make everything good, lets put it bluntly, your idea of god is a dick, made up from uncultured primitive people. I mean youre coming off as a stoolie here... is that just part of your gods sick joke of imposing his sadomasocistic will? thats no god worth worshiping, and no god would send you to hell for eternity for finite crimes agsinst other people...who you should be asking forgiveness for, not some creepy schizophrenic father-figure. And instead of saying eternity in hell for bad evidence why not just enlighten the people you claim to love when they die? why can you not be swayed in heaven? that is the sickest example of sadomasochism I can think of if that god cannot forgive you for not believing, the ultimate mob boss, you can come into heaven but you have to pay some protection money or you go to hell, fuck that. You cant possibly say that everyone who hasnt heard of your religion goes to your hell that your religion made up when theres people that are so isolated that they've never seen most technologies let alone Christianity. Religion is superfluous in explaining reality in the 21st Century, we have years of publically verifiable evidence in Science

[Zen Badger]

Hitchslap, can you stop yelling please.

My eyes are going deaf.

[KichigaiNeko]

Taking off the bold would be a help...there's a love

[frankiej]

At least you don't need glasses to read his posts.

[KichigaiNeko]

At least you don't need glasses to read his posts.

That was a thought frankiej....