Logic problem: The founding principles of the U.S. and Christianity.

[Bgood]

Thomas Jefferson quotes

"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes."

"The whole history of these books (i.e. the Gospels) is so defective and doubtful that it seems vain to attempt minute enquiry into it: and such tricks have been played with their text, and with the texts of other books relating to them, that we have a right, from that cause, to entertain much doubt what parts of them are genuine. In the New Testament there is internal evidence that parts of it have proceeded from an extraordinary man; and that other parts are of the fabric of very inferior minds. It is as easy to separate those parts, as to pick out diamonds from dunghills."

Among the sayings and discourses imputed to him (i.e. Jesus) by his biographers, I find many passages of fine imagination, correct morality, and of the most lovely benevolence; and others again of so much ignorance, so much absurdity, so much untruth, charlatanism, and imposture, as to pronounce it impossible that such contradictions should have proceeded from the same being."

[Ziploc Surprise]

[Anomalocaris]

The sole founding principle of the United States was the propertied classes would do better under a form of administration completely disagreeable to London. That's it.

Everything else are grandiose fluff or smoke and mirrors.

The only reason why propertied classes would think this way was because London foolishly did their bidding and evicted the French from Canada during the war of 1756, and therefore they no long felt beholden to London for major caliber protection against a real foreign power.

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The christian agenda in this country was based on religious freedom

Christians want freedom of religion for the exact same reason why the malicious provacateurs would want the freedom to shout fire in a crowded theater. They want it not so other creeds can stand as equals to them, they wanted so they can pursue their own agenda of atavistic dominance without scrutiny from other creeds.

[Godscreated]

The sole founding principle of the United States was the propertied classes would do better under a form of administration completely disagreeable to London. That's it.

Everything else are grandiose fluff or smoke and mirrors.

The only reason why propertied classes would think this way was because London foolishly did their bidding and evicted the French from Canada during the war of 1756, and therefore they no long felt beholden to London for major caliber protection against a real foreign power.

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The christian agenda in this country was based on religious freedom

Christians want freedom of religion for the exact same reason why the malicious provacateurs would want the freedom to shout fire in a crowded theater. They want it not so other creeds can stand as equals to them, they wanted so they can pursue their own agenda of atavistic dominance without scrutiny from other creeds.

You should read the entire post, I said something similar without being a prude.

[Ziploc Surprise]

To Godschild. BTW, please don't think I ignored your post. It seems I've kind of covered the things you addressed in your original post on this thread so it's possible I don't need to go over this directly with you. If what I've addressed so far is insufficient feel free to mention this. Don't expect me to respond tonight though. I've got a splitting headache and I need to go to bed (The cause of the headache has nothing to do with anything said here on this forum (lol), it's due to the pollen in my area. Spring has arrived early in Houston.)

[Bgood]

The Founding Fathers were well aware of the abuses and corruption throughout most Christian churches. The also were aware that it's deeply flawed theology. But it was pretty much the only game in town carried over from Europe. All the Christian references in the earliest documents were done for public acceptance and for traditional purposes. Even though the most prominent statesmen despised the religion or at least never took it all that seriously, they felt it was necessary to add words like God to pacify and appease the masses. Probably still true to this day. I know that Obama has been noted to laugh at and criticize Christian beliefs.

[Minimalist]

They knew what Voltaire had said:

"If there were only one religion in England, there would be danger of tyranny; if there were two, they would cut each other's throats; but there are thirty, and they live happily together in peace."

[Rokcet Scientist]

I know that Obama has been noted to laugh at and criticize Christian beliefs.

You need any more proof that your president is a fundamentally hypocritical fraud? Like all the rest of 'm?

[CliveStaples]

They want it not so other creeds can stand as equals to them, they wanted so they can pursue their own agenda of atavistic dominance without scrutiny from other creeds.

Right, "atavistic dominance" in the sense of "trying to persuade other people to agree with them". At least for the overwhelming majority of Christians. Remember who Jefferson wrote the "separation of church and state" letter to. It was a religious group, and Jefferson was trying to reassure them.

Personally, I don't see anything in the Bible telling me that I should oppose the First Amendment. I'd note that the approach Jesus, his apostles, and the various other New Testament evangelists took was not to advocate for coercive government action, but to talk, persuade, teach, and minister. If there's a good argument that the Biblical model of conversion is coercion, I'd like to see it, because the notion strikes me as plainly false.

[Ziploc Surprise]