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RE: Hamza Tzortzis
February 13, 2012 at 9:32 am
(February 13, 2012 at 9:19 am)Koklanas Wrote: Who set standard for morals then? We do, all of us.
Quote:Human interprets moral differently from one race to another,
Race has very little to do with it, societies more than anything.
Quote: what is right in a culture may not be right in another culture?
Exactly, and how do you determine that that culture that you are not a part of has its moral code wrong and your culture has its moral code right?
Quote:Who is the boss then other than the Supreme being?
You are just presupposing that there has to be a supreme moral lawgiver, because you fail to see how moral standards could be applied without such an entity. That has no bearing on whether or not such a being exist or not. What you think should be the case is not necessarily the case. You ask "who is the boss", the question should be "is there a boss".
Best regards,
Leo van Miert
Horsepower is how hard you hit the wall --Torque is how far you take the wall with you
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RE: Hamza Tzortzis
February 13, 2012 at 9:39 am
(This post was last modified: February 13, 2012 at 9:39 am by The Grand Nudger.)
(February 13, 2012 at 9:02 am)Koklanas Wrote: I am not wondering about the spirit, I am talking about the bad deeds. the game is not over, and case is closed just like that when your body stops working. T
The dead will be 'raised' and judged on the judgment Day by the creator. If no such a thing as ultimate justice then everyone would do bad thing to anyone whithout any fear for anything including the fear of punishment from the creator.
That explains why human came up with all sorts of restrictions and guide to define what is right and what is wrong and it became regarded as law.
Imagine living without law and order and no Supreme being. I am sure the earth population will becoming less and less since human will take revenge to kill one another, or killing for fun, since they have noothing to fear..
You believe that the dead will be "raised" and judged but you have no evidence that this is the case. I don't believe this, nor do I believe in ultimate judgement and yet I don't wander around stealing lollipops from little kids and raping women. I'm perfectly able to live a good life without any such belief, with no fear of judgement by your god or any god.
What explains why people came up with restrictions and guides? Your beliefs? In a roundabout sort of way yes, but not in the way that you believe it does.
I've been in areas with no law or order. Sucks. I don't have to imagine being in an area with no supreme being, I'm there right now, so are you. No imagination required. People do kill each other for revenge and for fun, and?
Whether or not you or I wish or hope that those who do bad things will be punished (even when they slip through our laws fingers) has nothing to do with whether or not they are. We've been over this.
People are "giving up" because you're repeating yourself, and because you aren't a particularly skillful apologist.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Hamza Tzortzis
February 13, 2012 at 9:41 am
Poll posted Rhythm
"The Universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements: energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest." G'Kar-B5
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RE: Hamza Tzortzis
February 13, 2012 at 9:49 am
(February 13, 2012 at 9:32 am)leo-rcc Wrote: (February 13, 2012 at 9:19 am)Koklanas Wrote: Who set standard for morals then? We do, all of us.
Quote:Human interprets moral differently from one race to another,
Race has very little to do with it, societies more than anything.
Quote: what is right in a culture may not be right in another culture?
Exactly, and how do you determine that that culture that you are not a part of has its moral code wrong and your culture has its moral code right?
Quote:Who is the boss then other than the Supreme being?
You are just presupposing that there has to be a supreme moral lawgiver, because you fail to see how moral standards could be applied without such an entity. That has no bearing on whether or not such a being exist or not. What you think should be the case is not necessarily the case. You ask "who is the boss", the question should be "is there a boss".
First of all I want to respect you for not using harsh words like inconsiderate 'Phil'.
There has to be a boss since there are 2 or more contradicting definition of on certain moral. Take for instance like abortion
If you think it is right then there are also others who think it not wrong.
Then who is right then? The Bos will decide, and He is the supreme creator. Only such an entity could standardise the moral standard.
How?, through revelation to the prophets via Angel Gabriel...
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RE: Hamza Tzortzis
February 13, 2012 at 9:52 am
(February 13, 2012 at 9:49 am)Koklanas Wrote: Then who is right then? The Bos will decide, and He is the supreme creator. Only such an entity could standardise the moral standard.
How?, through revelation to the prophets via Angel Gabriel...
As I said before and I will say again and keep saying till you admit morals are not from your brutal sky warlord Allah, you're an amoral animal if you only do good for reward and avoid doing bad cause you fear punishment.
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RE: Hamza Tzortzis
February 13, 2012 at 9:53 am
(This post was last modified: February 13, 2012 at 9:53 am by The Grand Nudger.)
No, there doesn't "have" to be..you very much want there to be a boss. This has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not there is, as has been pointed out to you by a couple of posters, a couple of times. I'd be glad to rephrase this anyway you like if it's difficult to understand. Just single out the part of this sentence that has you confused-
"What you want to exist, and what exists, are not always the same thing"
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Hamza Tzortzis
February 13, 2012 at 9:58 am
(February 13, 2012 at 9:53 am)Rhythm Wrote: No, there doesn't "have" to be..you very much want there to be a boss. This has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not there is, as has been pointed out to you by a couple of posters, a couple of times. I'd be glad to rephrase this anyway you like if it's difficult to understand. Just single out the part of this sentence that has you confused-
"What you want to exist, and what exists, are not always the same thing"
Give me an example or analogy from the above sentence. English is not daily spoken language. I might intepret it wrongly.
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RE: Hamza Tzortzis
February 13, 2012 at 9:58 am
The fact that you and so many others all imagine a boss-god, Kok, and the fact that so many of you see him/her/it as being different and going about its tasks in various ways should suggest something. The fact that it doesn't is unfortunate.
Trying to update my sig ...
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RE: Hamza Tzortzis
February 13, 2012 at 10:03 am
(February 13, 2012 at 9:58 am)Koklanas Wrote: Give me an example or analogy from the above sentence. English is not daily spoken language. I might intepret it wrongly.
I want there to be large sum of money in my hands. There is not a large sum of money in my hands. Sometimes "what you want" is not the same thing as "what is".
You want bad deeds to be punished after death, you have no evidence that bad deeds are punished after death.
You want to be rewarded after death, you have no evidence that good deeds are rewarded after death.
I am not afraid of punishment after death, nor am I expecting any reward for any good deeds I do. I don't do evil things because I am not an evil person. I do good things because I enjoy doing good things.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Hamza Tzortzis
February 13, 2012 at 10:04 am
(February 13, 2012 at 9:49 am)Koklanas Wrote: There has to be a boss since there are 2 or more contradicting definition of on certain moral.
How does that make the case for a "boss" to exist any more plausible? One can be wrong and one can be right, and still there is no need for a third party lawgiver. It is superfluous.
Quote:Take for instance like abortion
If you think it is right then there are also others who think it not wrong.
Then who is right then?
That is what we can decide through dialog. Honest discussion can get you the same or even a better result as using some outside party, specially if that outside party has given no indication to be real, let alone a legitimate source of morality to begin with.
Quote:The Bos will decide, and He is the supreme creator. Only such an entity could standardise the moral standard.
That is just another assertion, with no foundation in evidence or reason. You need to come up with a better explanation than "there has to be because I don't see how else a moral standard can be applied". That is just an argument from ignorance, and will convince no-one.
Best regards,
Leo van Miert
Horsepower is how hard you hit the wall --Torque is how far you take the wall with you
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