Can Atheists Worship/love the Divine? Yes.

[Mystic]

In the former hypothetical case (should Socrates turn out to exist), you are honoring Socrates the person.

In the latter hypothetical case, Socrates isn't a person at all, he's a fictional character. You can honor what Socrates the character represents, but not the person - because that person does not exist

Yes I agree. So let's apply to God.

If God doesn't exist, then we are worshiping a fictional character, not a real being.

If God exists, and we don't believe he exists, but still believe that if he existed, he would be worthy of highest honor, then we would have Worshiped God.

So if people acknowledge the hypothetical maximally great being as worthy of worship, and turns out the maximally great possible being is real, they would have worshiped that being.

[Cosmic Ape]

I've been thinking about this issue.

Mental Gymnastics don't count.

Suppose Socrates was a fictionally made character by Plato. We can still respect and honor that character.

Irrelevant, nobody ever worshipped Socrates like a god, your point is moot.

Now Suppose he was real, and we thought he was fictional or rather didn't know whether he was fictional or real. If we respect the character describe, and it accurately describes the real person, then our respect for that person would be real.

You still didnt link Socrates and a God together or link any tale to any specific god, you do what many religious people do in an argument and thats forgetting how to actually explain the steps needed to demonstrate your claims. The burden of proof is always on the one making the claim, sir.

In the same way, if Atheists don't believe Maximullly great being exists, but that maximally great being is worthy of highest honor, love, and veneration, which is synonymous with being worthy of Worship...

Why would a god want to be worshipped? your language reeks of the ancient times when people had to obey and worship kings / emperors.. any physical being (because thats the only being that can exist) that is powerful enough to do things on the magnitude of a god-like creature through Evolution.. surely couldn't be so petty and vain as to want to hear the murmurs of random monkies on a flying rock in the milky way?

Then whether they believe he exists or not, or even are strong atheists whom deny such a being exists to do philosophical arguments such as the problem of evil or suffering or bad design...but they acknowledge that the hypothetical being is WORTHY of Worship....

No, if I don't believe a god, that's the end of the discussion. But let's play that card then...I don't deny something I dont think is there, would you say you deny fairies? or would you say there's no reason to believe fairies exist? big difference brosef. And actually bad design and "evil" as you would call it shows nothing but a naturalistic universe, sorry you're so scared to die and need a story to make yourself feel better about dieing.

[passionatefool]

except that great being is an egotistic mass-murdering maniac. And also his followers are just as crazy so no I prefer not to respect him. His attributes doesn't deserve it. It deludes people from reality. Socrates was never a proclaimed god nor did he really start any sort of weird worshipping business. So your analogy is poor.

[Tempus]

If God exists, and we don't believe he exists, but still believe that if he existed, he would be worthy of highest honor, then we would have Worshiped God.

So if people acknowledge the hypothetical maximally great being as worthy of worship, and turns out the maximally great possible being is real, they would have worshiped that being.

I think get what you're saying. Regardless of whether someone exists we can still recognise that if they do exist they're worthy of praise / honour / worship / love / etc.

That's not the issue I have. I just think it's silly to talk of worthiness. Worthiness isn't objective, it's determined by an observer's criteria which itself is determined by their expectations and desires. You can't quantify a subjective value (worthiness in this case) an observer projects on another being the same way to could the distance between two points. Sure, you can note the majority of people think person X is worthy of respect, but what does this tell us about his actually worthiness? What we're quantifying here is people's perception of his worthiness, not the actual quality of worthiness itself. An analogy would be 70% of people guessing the height of someone to be 180cm. Their value judgements don't actually determine the person's height which is an independent value regardless of whether 50%, 70% or even 100% believe otherwise. With the persons height we can just measure them to get an answer, but we can't do that with worthiness.

I wouldn't worship anything voluntary or otherwise. I don't worship or honour Socrates... so? Why would I? Acknowledging and appreciating something doesn't mean you need to place it on a pedestal. And what is this worship giving me anyway? It sure isn't giving this maximally great (whatever that means) being anything since it's apparently already perfect in every single way. A perfect being would by definition need nothing since needs arise from deficiency. Unless it's perfectly deficient?

In answer to your thread title question, atheists can't worship gods. You actually need to believe (regardless of whether you know or not) something exists before you can worship it. If an atheist believes in god... well, they're no longer an atheist. Acknowledging that if something existed it would be X, Y and Z isn't the same as believing it exists. Therefore, no, atheists can't worship gods - at most they can acknowledge they would if they believe god(s) existed, which would, as before, make them no longer atheists.

[Strongbad]

So if people acknowledge the hypothetical maximally great being as worthy of worship, and turns out the maximally great possible being is real, they would have worshiped that being.

I'm not sure why I bothered, because this is one of the most mundane, pedestrian threads I have ever seen, but I think I see your problem, slick.

Even if we were to grant that your hypothetical "maximally great being" was worthy of worship, that doesn't mean that we in any way, shape, or form actually worshiped it. Got it?

[brotherlylove]

I've been thinking about this issue.

Suppose Socrates was a fictionally made character by Plato. We can still respect and honor that character.

Now Suppose he was real, and we thought he was fictional or rather didn't know whether he was fictional or real. If we respect the character describe, and it accurately describes the real person, then our respect for that person would be real.

In the same way, if Atheists don't believe Maximullly great being exists, but that maximally great being is worthy of highest honor, love, and veneration, which is synonymous with being worthy of Worship...

Then whether they believe he exists or not, or even are strong atheists whom deny such a being exists to do philosophical arguments such as the problem of evil or suffering or bad design...but they acknowledge that the hypothetical being is WORTHY of Worship....

Then they are worshiping that being, whether they know he exists or not.

I don't think this logically follows for most atheists, although they may be able to conceive of receiving such adoration unto themselves.

I think they are hung up on notions of autonomy, thinking that the independent, self-reliant mode is the superior mindset.

I do not think they can imagine a maximally great being because their spiritual eyes are clouded by preconceived notions about deity. It think it is difficult for them to conceive of a being that is truly worthy of praise, and worship, because they reject the notion that there is anything higher than themselves, except perhaps for some vague notion of the grandness and majesty they see in creation.

They see worship as beneath them. Even if they found out that this is the reason they were created, the very purpose of their existence, they would still deny it. They just can't trust God or admit that the designer of the Universe knows better than they do about what is best for them.

They are probably contrasting this to human beings, and how wrong it is for us to worship another human, when the only reason for this is, it is wrong to worship anything other than God, not that there is anything wrong with worship. I don't think they see that distinction. No one else is worthy of worship but God. It is wrong to worship false idols. They probably do not realize that we are all built to worship something, and if it isn't God, it will be something else. Whether it is self, money, power, sex, fame, or even nature, idolatry is not just about bowing before a golden calf.

[Darwinian]

I don't think this logically follows for most atheists, although they may be able to conceive of receiving such adoration unto themselves.

I think they are hung up on notions of autonomy, thinking that the independent, self-reliant mode is the superior mindset.

I do not think they can imagine a maximally great being because their spiritual eyes are clouded by preconceived notions about deity. It think it is difficult for them to conceive of a being that is truly worthy of praise, and worship, because they reject the notion that there is anything higher than themselves, except perhaps for some vague notion of the grandness and majesty they see in creation.

They see worship as beneath them. Even if they found out that this is the reason they were created, the very purpose of their existence, they would still deny it. They just can't trust God or admit that the designer of the Universe knows better than they do about what is best for them.

They are probably contrasting this to human beings, and how wrong it is for us to worship another human, when the only reason for this is, it is wrong to worship anything other than God, not that there is anything wrong with worship. I don't think they see that distinction. No one else is worthy of worship but God. It is wrong to worship false idols. They probably do not realize that we are all built to worship something, and if it isn't God, it will be something else. Whether it is self, money, power, sex, fame, or even nature, idolatry is not just about bowing before a golden calf.

Wow, talk about being smug in your own sense of moral self superiority!

[Minimalist]

thinking that the independent, self-reliant mode is the superior mindset.

For once in your life you got something right.

[brotherlylove]

I don't think this logically follows for most atheists, although they may be able to conceive of receiving such adoration unto themselves.

I think they are hung up on notions of autonomy, thinking that the independent, self-reliant mode is the superior mindset.

I do not think they can imagine a maximally great being because their spiritual eyes are clouded by preconceived notions about deity. It think it is difficult for them to conceive of a being that is truly worthy of praise, and worship, because they reject the notion that there is anything higher than themselves, except perhaps for some vague notion of the grandness and majesty they see in creation.

They see worship as beneath them. Even if they found out that this is the reason they were created, the very purpose of their existence, they would still deny it. They just can't trust God or admit that the designer of the Universe knows better than they do about what is best for them.

They are probably contrasting this to human beings, and how wrong it is for us to worship another human, when the only reason for this is, it is wrong to worship anything other than God, not that there is anything wrong with worship. I don't think they see that distinction. No one else is worthy of worship but God. It is wrong to worship false idols. They probably do not realize that we are all built to worship something, and if it isn't God, it will be something else. Whether it is self, money, power, sex, fame, or even nature, idolatry is not just about bowing before a golden calf.

Wow, talk about being smug in your own sense of moral self superiority!

Feel free to correct my assumptions as it applies to what you believe about maximally great beings and worship. I don't believe myself to be superior to you or anyone else.

---

thinking that the independent, self-reliant mode is the superior mindset.

For once in your life you got something right.

If there was a God, would this mindset make any sense?

[houseofcantor]

I've been thinking about this issue.

You're doing it wrong.

Hate it when that happens.