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Can Atheists Worship/love the Divine? Yes.
#51
RE: Can Atheists Worship/love the Divine? Yes.
I'm a glutton for punishment...

(February 18, 2012 at 1:39 am)brotherlylove Wrote: How do you out imagine a maximally great being?
Simple, I used my...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4sUPvDZfog


Quote:It means there is a way of seeing that extends beyond what you now perceive.
If you meant intuition (psychology) then why use such a meaningless term as "spiritual eyes"? Let's put your reliable deity-perceiving sense to the test shall we? We'll make this experiment straightforward, something trivial, after you can sense an infinite-creator-god out there so any challenge thereafter is moot. Okay then, what items do I currently have on my desk? Hmm?


Quote:What being would be worthy of worship?
You obviously didn't understand the usage of term 'Catch-22' in context to worship.


Quote:There is plenty of evidence for design, such as the information in DNA.
No.


Quote:God only sends unrepentant sinners to hell, so if you have been warned and you still refuse to turn from your sins, I don't see anything unfair about it.
Except I've never met with or spoke to any God, so in all fairness, I haven't been warned for doing anything wrong.


Quote:He knows what is best for you because He created you and knows you better than you know yourself. Do you deny that such a being would know what is best for you?
No god anywhere created me. I'm biological. My parents 'created' me, and half the time they don't know what's best for themselves.


Quote:Your flaw here is that you're contrasting God to human beings.
You erroneously presume that I think humans are perfect and should be worshipped? When the fuck have I ever said that?


Quote:Worship isn't groveling yourself, it is a sincere proclamation of reverance and gratitude.
No god anywhere has ever done anything for me that would make me revere or be grateful or express devotion undo them.


Quote:Consider this quote by CS Lewis:
No. You present your own damn argument instead of ̶q̶̶u̶̶o̶̶t̶̶i̶̶n̶̶g̶ ripping long extract's from another man's work.


Quote:God doesn't need worship
Congratulations on defeating your own argument.


Quote:I think the Creator of this Universe is definitely worthy of worship.
You think a creator-god who doesn't need you is worthy of your time? You are a pitiful blind sheep, no different than legions of stalkers desperately wanting attention from rich and famous celebrities and have no life of your own.


Quote:If He didn't give us the choice we would be robots.
Takes all the fun out of sending us to Hell doesn't us?


Quote:I know what it means, and that doesn't apply to me. I came to Christianity independently.
I don't believe you.


Quote:I "subscribe" to Christianity because I believe it is true.
I don't care.


Quote:It is real because He gave us a spirit, which makes us as real as He is, since God is a Spirit.
Fine, move the goalposts. Provide a clear positive ontology for spirits.


Quote:A God who came to Earth as a man could die.
Vampires drink blood, fairies can fly, and Gods can't die.


Quote:Death is inevitable, but not final.
Sorry, death is always final. Verily, it is a fact of life is that it must end. Everyone without exception will die and be forgotten.


Quote:It's the childs fault if he doesn't listen to his parents.
What does this have to do with the painter and painting analogy? Apart from nothing whatsoever, that is.


Quote:It's all about God
Nope. We are real and accountable to each other.

Then there will come a time where we're not accountable to anything as we embrace the eternal void of oblivion.
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#52
RE: Can Atheists Worship/love the Divine? Yes.
At times I glimpse the divine in the sky,
more often I feel it in a thigh.
[Image: YgZ8E.png]
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#53
RE: Can Atheists Worship/love the Divine? Yes.
(February 15, 2012 at 6:33 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: I've been thinking about this issue.

Suppose Socrates was a fictionally made character by Plato. We can still respect and honor that character.

Now Suppose he was real, and we thought he was fictional or rather didn't know whether he was fictional or real. If we respect the character describe, and it accurately describes the real person, then our respect for that person would be real.

In the same way, if Atheists don't believe Maximullly great being exists, but that maximally great being is worthy of highest honor, love, and veneration, which is synonymous with being worthy of Worship...

Then whether they believe he exists or not, or even are strong atheists whom deny such a being exists to do philosophical arguments such as the problem of evil or suffering or bad design...but they acknowledge that the hypothetical being is WORTHY of Worship....

Then they are worshiping that being, whether they know he exists or not.

Nothing and no one has ever been worthy of worship.
Respect yes, atempt to emulate but worship no.
i've never understood this desire for people to endlessly praise things.
Even if it were true that there was a god or some great man who did great deeds then worship would still be odd behaviour in my book.



You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.

Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.




 








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#54
RE: Can Atheists Worship/love the Divine? Yes.
I don't do servitude very well either DBP
"The Universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements: energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest." G'Kar-B5
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#55
RE: Can Atheists Worship/love the Divine? Yes.
(February 18, 2012 at 1:09 am)Thorham Wrote: I don't think omnipotent beings need to be worshiped. Worship is nothing but a ridiculous idea invented by humans.

Truly.

And even more to the point what would an omnipotent being need devoted "servants" for?

In Christianity the idea is that no man can resist "sin". Sin is nothing other than a desire to disobey God. So supposedly all men have an innate desire designed into them by their designer God to want to disobey God. And they cannot override this desire to disobey God on their own.

So the idea is that they need to ask for "Grace". When they ask for grace, this God supposedly comes into their heart and removes this desire to disobey him. (i.e. God removes the person's free will choice and replaces it with a desire to only do the will of God)

Christians often claim that their God doesn't want puppets. Yet this is precisely what their religion demands that their God turns people into when they accept his 'grace'.

He takes away their personal free will and replaces it will a will to only do God's will.

Moreover, there would not be a single solitary person in this God's heavenly kingdom who got there via their own merit. Everyone who makes it to haven can only get there via the 'grace' of God.

So it's ultimately a picture of a supposedly omnipotent God who has created a heaven filled with unworthy puppets who have been converted from beings who used to have 'free will' into puppets who can now only do God's will because they no longer have any choice in the matter.

This God would have been far better off just designing programmable puppets in the first place.

And he needs these obedient puppets for what? Servants?

What does an powerful God need puppet servants for?

What could they possible offer an omnipotent God?

About the only thing they could offer is some form of companionship, or constant worship to boost the God's eternally jealous ego.

The people who made up these fairy tales clearly weren't very bright.

They never stopped to think of why a supposedly omnipotent God would need to be worshiped by a bunch of unworthy losers who ultimately had to be raped of their own free will just to obtain his grace anyway.

This has truly got to be the stupidest story ever written by mankind.





Christian - A moron who believes that an all-benevolent God can simultaneously be a hateful jealous male-chauvinistic pig.
Wiccan - The epitome of cerebral evolution having mastered the magical powers of the universe and is in eternal harmony with the mind of God.
Atheist - An ill-defined term that means something different to everyone who uses it.
~~~~~
Luke 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.
Clearly Jesus (a fictitious character or otherwise) will forgive people if they merely know not what they do
For the Bible Tells us so!
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#56
RE: Can Atheists Worship/love the Divine? Yes.
(February 18, 2012 at 1:39 am)brotherlylove Wrote: There is plenty of evidence for design, such as the information in DNA. God only sends unrepentant sinners to hell, so if you have been warned and you still refuse to turn from your sins, I don't see anything unfair about it. He knows what is best for you because He created you and knows you better than you know yourself. Do you deny that such a being would know what is best for you?

No. God does not do sequential time; design is a causal assumption. If there is "god" in the atheistic sense, it would be between the spaces of Planck time; undifferentiated. Tell me love as waveform seeps from the void, tell me it speaks of timelessness, I'm hearing something.

Your other stuff ain't too bad. Cannot justify a literal YHWH in a modern context, however. Wink
[Image: twQdxWW.jpg]
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