Can Atheists Worship/love the Divine? Yes.

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

I think they are hung up on notions of autonomy

"Hung up" how very fucking patronisng of you.

I for one consider thinking independently and taking responsibility for one's life far more admirable rather than slavishly following the tribal superstitions of a bunch of bronze age goat herders.

[brotherlylove]

I think they are hung up on notions of autonomy

"Hung up" how very fucking patronisng of you.

I for one consider thinking independently and taking responsibility for one's life far more admirable rather than slavishly following the tribal superstitions of a bunch of bronze age goat herders.

Except if you're wrong and there really is a God who created you to know Him, and your desire for personal autonomy is actually a manifestation of your rebellion against His authority. I am not patronizing you; I am expressing what I sincerely believ. You could try to see it from my perspective before you assume that I am attacking you.

[Minimalist]

If there was a God, would this mindset make any sense?

It's your "if." None of you has ever presented a shred of evidence that your absurd beliefs have any basis in reality.

[Whateverist]

In the same way, if Atheists don't believe Maximullly great being exists, but that maximally great being is worthy of highest honor, love, and veneration, which is synonymous with being worthy of Worship...

I don't think this logically follows for most atheists, although they may be able to conceive of receiving such adoration unto themselves.

..

I do not think they can imagine a maximally great being because their spiritual eyes are clouded by preconceived notions about deity. It think it is difficult for them to conceive of a being that is truly worthy of praise, and worship, because they reject the notion that there is anything higher than themselves, except perhaps for some vague notion of the grandness and majesty they see in creation.

They see worship as beneath them.

At long last we are in total agreement, Brotherly. Worship stinks of self abdication and so is utterly beneath me. I don't want my dog to worship me let alone a person. I like people to have a backbone. People I find worthy do need to embrace autonomy just as you say.

Even when I was very young and believed in such things I could never imagine that God would want or have need for a sea of worshipers. To what end? What would you do with worship?

I have to imagine that if your God actually did exist and was giving you absolute free will, He would be sorely disappointed with you. He'd wonder why your insecurity drove you to invest so heavily in that magic elixir they call the "bible" and why you allow the charlatans who sell it to enslave and control you.

He would not know what this "judgement day", "hell" or "heaven" is all about but he would surely not endure your company in this or any other life. If you really believe in God, spit on the bible, think for yourself and make yourself worthy to be good company for this God of yours. Don't throw yourself at his feet like teenyboppers before a pop idol. Don't abandon yourself at all. Make yourself worthy. Humility in measure is admirable. Seeking to be nothing is not.

[KichigaiNeko]

Humility is claiming responsibility for your triumphs as well as your mistakes and not trying to lay blame on any outside 'influence' at the first sign of trouble or praise for what you have done. Also known as 'backbone'

[brotherlylove]

At long last we are in total agreement, Brotherly. Worship stinks of self abdication and so is utterly beneath me. I don't want my dog to worship me let alone a person. I like people to have a backbone. People I find worthy do need to embrace autonomy just as you say.

Does autonomy make any sense in light of Gods sovereignty? How could one be autonomous in such a world?

Even when I was very young and believed in such things I could never imagine that God would want or have need for a sea of worshipers. To what end? What would you do with worship?

I think John Piper offers a good description on why God commands worship:

I have to imagine that if your God actually did exist and was giving you absolute free will, He would be sorely disappointed with you. He'd wonder why your insecurity drove you to invest so heavily in that magic elixir they call the "bible" and why you allow the charlatans who sell it to enslave and control you.

He gives us absolute free will to obey or disobey Him, and we are also free to experience the consequences of our choices.

In my case, no one sold me Christianity. I had received signs that God did actually exist, and on that basis I decided to give my life to the Lord. When I did, I received the Holy Spirit and my life was utterly transformed, like a butterfly emerging from a catepillars chrysalis. It's because of those things that I believe the bible is the word of God.

He would not know what this "judgement day", "hell" or "heaven" is all about but he would surely not endure your company in this or any other life. If you really believe in God, spit on the bible, think for yourself and make yourself worthy to be good company for this God of yours. Don't throw yourself at his feet like teenyboppers before a pop idol. Don't abandon yourself at all. Make yourself worthy. Humility in measure is admirable. Seeking to be nothing is not.

I am not nothing. I am an adopted son of God and co-heir to Christ. To be a Christian is to be a part of Gods family. God isn't looking for syncophants, He is looking for sons and daughters to follow the righteous example of His Son and be transformed. I am grateful for all that God has done for me.

If someone took you off the street and fed you, and clothed you, set you up with a car and a house, gave you friendship and connections, and sent you monthly checks until the day you died, you would probably be pretty grateful to that person, wouldn't you?

You might even feel like praising him, and telling other people all that this person did for you. Well, God did a few better than that; He died for me, forgave me for my sins, and gave me eternal life. I have a lot of reasons to praise Him, eternal reasons. We praise the things we love, and so I praise God, the author of life. I praise He who made the stars, the green meadows and the crystal blue sky.

---

Humility is claiming responsibility for your triumphs as well as your mistakes and not trying to lay blame on any outside 'influence' at the first sign of trouble or praise for what you have done. Also known as 'backbone'

My mistakes are entirely my own. As far as my triumphs, what I have accomplished in this world, things that some might feel are noteworthy, are just grains of sand passing through the hourglass. My life isn't about what I have done, it is about what God has done, is still doing.

[AthiestAtheist]

I think they are hung up on notions of autonomy, thinking that the independent, self-reliant mode is the superior mindset.

As opposed to... being a tool?

[Whateverist]

Well, God did a few better than that; He died for me, forgave me for my sins, and gave me eternal life. I have a lot of reasons to praise Him, eternal reasons. We praise the things we love, and so I praise God, the author of life. I praise He who made the stars, the green meadows and the crystal blue sky.

I give up. Might want to get some knee pads. Have a nice .. whatever

[Welsh cake]

So if you can honor Socrates whether you know he exists or not, then you can honor God whether you know he exists or not.

How can you (a mere creation) honour a singular deity? You can't. How can our dreams and fantasies honour us? They can't. A sole god has no peers. It cannot obtain a perceived notion of "worthiness" or "respectability" within a social standing because there are no other gods. There are no real beings besides itself, all of reality being something imaginative, something it made up. Its all alone in the void.

So the conclusion is Atheists can not believe in God but still Worship Him.

Your train of logic got derailed somewhere. You cannot logically, rationally or sensibly worship someone you don't believe is even real.

I do not think they can imagine a maximally great being...

Get off. I can 'out-imagine' you any day of the week brotherly. I can imagine the Mother of God spanking her unruly, tantrum-throwing son [God] on his supernatural backside whenever he abuses his own creation. His current 'absence' is because his hypernatural mum sent him to his room as punishment for being cruel and tyrannical to mortals.

See, I can imagine up virtually anything. Do I think any of it, including what you believe, is real? No.

because their spiritual eyes are clouded by preconceived notions about deity.

What the hell does "spiritual eyes" mean?

It think it is difficult for them to conceive of a being that is truly worthy of praise, and worship, because they reject the notion that there is anything higher than themselves, except perhaps for some vague notion of the grandness and majesty they see in creation.

I can conceive of situations where people worship a being whose very existence cannot be demonstrated. Do I think such a being is worthy of worship? No.

They just can't trust God or admit that the designer of the Universe knows better than they do about what is best for them.

What kind of half-arsed appeal to intelligent design was that? At least make an argument that can be refuted as opposed to being ignored as a rant. There is no evidence of a designer or creator in nature. Anywhere. And God knows what's best for me? By sending me to eternal torment and suffering in Hell? Just because I couldn't believe in this life? What an almighty bastard you believe in!

No one else is worthy of worship but God.

The catch-22 here is if a sentient being is *worthy* of worship they wouldn't want to worshipped in the first instance. A flawless rationally-minded deity wouldn't require other lower creatures to debase themselves idolizing or holding them in such reverence and high-esteem to the point where people stop being themselves. If God's perfect, and not an ego-manic, then he would find your religious ceremonies disgusting or at the very least, unnecessary. He'd find your acts of worship embarrassing and opening him to shame in front of an angelic audience and wouldn't want or need your worship.

Conversely, if God demands worship from mere mortals, he's not perfect and therefore, not worthy of worship.

He gives us absolute free will to obey or disobey Him, and we are also free to experience the consequences of our choices.

Except the consequences are eternal which makes your god an asshat for giving us that choice. That's akin to a parent giving his child the freewill to point a loaded gun up his own nose. God is either monstrously abusive, or wholly irresponsible and incompetent as a 'parental figure'.

In my case, no one sold me Christianity.

Yeah right. Look up indoctrination sometime and learn something about yourself.

I had received signs that God did actually exist, and on that basis I decided to give my life to the Lord.

Such as?

I am an adopted son of God and co-heir to Christ.

At least you don't subscribe to Christianity for personal gain. Heaven forbid!

He is looking for sons and daughters to follow the righteous example of His Son and be transformed.

A creator-god concept is a being that is all alone in an infinite void/singularity without any other like him to comfort him. He can imagine up a world (universe), fantasize a family (humans), but unlike him, none of it is real and deep down he knows it.

I am grateful for all that God has done for me.

Such as?

If someone took you off the street and fed you, and clothed you, set you up with a car and a house, gave you friendship and connections, and sent you monthly checks until the day you died, you would probably be pretty grateful to that person, wouldn't you?

Such a person has about as much in common as your personal god in this thought experiment. They don't exist.

He died for me

A god can't die. Do you even know what the concept of a deity is?

gave me eternal life.

Life is a process, death is its inevitable outcome.

My mistakes are entirely my own.

Yeah, its the painting's fault the artist sucks so hard.

My life isn't about what I have done, it is about what God has done, is still doing.

If its all about god, then you are nothing, O adopted son and co-heir of magic man.

[genkaus]

Does autonomy make any sense in light of Gods sovereignty? How could one be autonomous in such a world?

He gives us absolute free will to obey or disobey Him, and we are also free to experience the consequences of our choices.

How do you not see the contradiction here? Giving someone free-will without autonomy is like giving someone a dick without any balls.

I am not nothing. I am an adopted son of God and co-heir to Christ. To be a Christian is to be a part of Gods family. God isn't looking for syncophants, He is looking for sons and daughters to follow the righteous example of His Son and be transformed. I am grateful for all that God has done for me.

If he decides who to adopt based on who praises him, then his "adoptive" children and sycophants are not different.

If someone took you off the street and fed you, and clothed you, set you up with a car and a house, gave you friendship and connections, and sent you monthly checks until the day you died, you would probably be pretty grateful to that person, wouldn't you?You might even feel like praising him, and telling other people all that this person did for you. Well, God did a few better than that; He died for me, forgave me for my sins, and gave me eternal life. I have a lot of reasons to praise Him, eternal reasons. We praise the things we love, and so I praise God, the author of life. I praise He who made the stars, the green meadows and the crystal blue sky.

---

Praise him? For what? Giving me something I did not deserve?

I'd be grateful if he told me, "I'm doing all this because I expect you to pay me back every penny", I'd be grateful to him. Otherwise, I'd call him a fool and throw his money back in his face.