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Current time: March 29, 2024, 10:36 am

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Do you trust people enough to not have any religion?
#1
Do you trust people enough to not have any religion?
Let me first say that I do not believe in objective morality in the sense of believing there is some cosmic judge waiting to punish those who do wrong.

My morality is based more on reciprocal altruism/trying to act in such a way that I want the world to act. I also happen to find value in doing things that I feel are good. Though as an atheist I cannot appeal to an absolute standard that would govern everyone.

Now I can/have a sense of morality/good/honesty without being told that I have to by some authority figure. I can see the inherent benefit/good in operating under moral guidelines such as honesty, empathy, love, peace, etc.

However for those who base their morality solely on a religion I sometimes worry that they may not be able to handle not being told what to do. If those inside of religion lost all faith would they be able to sustain a morality without it being a REQUIREMENT. I personally don't trust everyone that much but at the same time I do not believe religion is true.

It is a weird catch 22 for me but perhaps I am being unfair as I used to be religious and now that I am not I still have morality. However I also know that many people even inside of religion aren't the most moral so without any religion how much worse would they be? I was just wondering what your guys thoughts were on this.
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#2
RE: Do you trust people enough to not have any religion?
Other countries where a lot of people don't rely on religion for their morals seem to be doing okay, crime and civil order-wise.
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#3
RE: Do you trust people enough to not have any religion?
Sure do. No reservations, handshake and a smile, welcome to the fold.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#4
RE: Do you trust people enough to not have any religion?
Relativism came up in class again. Being at a conservative Christian university sometimes when I hear people speak I worry that they may not be able to handle not having an authority telling them what is good/right.

It does not help that the professor stated that without Christianity he would live a much different life. Now of course this may just be from the sense of pleasure/not giving a shit as much anymore but it does make me wonder what happens when some overly religious people get off the leash.

I was pretty religious though and I didn't go fuck wild but well there you go.... probably just an irrational fear.
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#5
RE: Do you trust people enough to not have any religion?
When has belief ever prevented atrocity? People will do terrible things with or without any ethereal or terrestrial nanny. When statistics show a correlation between a loss of faith and cannibalism I'll start to worry.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#6
RE: Do you trust people enough to not have any religion?
Hmm, I have to say I have had uncharitable thoughts about a theist whom depends on the absolute moral good argument for God, and if God was suddenly utterly disproven I think the biggest danger would be through grief as if a family member has died.

We can call religious belief delusional, and we can point out that sincere personal belief offers validity being no greater than illusion. This does not change the fact it is SINCERE and this must be recognised.

The loss of God would be genuine grief, equal and as valid as the loss of a family member. Combined with a general feeling of being lost, and I think there is a strong argument that serious social complication would arise from it. I simply lack the faculty to imagine what form the social complications would take.

I view religion and society in the same way I view drugs and the individual. Society needs to continue its current leaning towards secularism and future generations will further ween us off the "belief" drug.

It needs to be a gradual change.. but I confess I feel guilty for my lack of faith in people to take it in a rational and nondestructive manner.

That being said, since we know fine well that a sudden disproof will almost certainly never happen, its not something we need worry about, and society will take the course it is on.

I think its also worth noting, proof would have to be completely undeniable, and I'm even less skeptical about declaring that an impossibility. If the proof has any way of being denied, I think for first reaction will always be denial.

I am also of the freely admitted unsubstantiated opinion that the cult of celebrity is correlated with the decline of the cult of theism, and sudden removal of the faith structure would see a rapid explosion in alternative faiths and "quasi-deification" of individuals to fill the gaps instead of a mass conversion to skepticism.

Now that you made me think about it, I'm bloody pessimistic and a little condescending about the mental faculty of the general public. I may not be entirely fair, so I'm going to reserve the right to spend some time to consider this a little more.
Self-authenticating private evidence is useless, because it is indistinguishable from the illusion of it. ― Kel, Kelosophy Blog

If you’re going to watch tele, you should watch Scooby Doo. That show was so cool because every time there’s a church with a ghoul, or a ghost in a school. They looked beneath the mask and what was inside?
The f**king janitor or the dude who runs the waterslide. Throughout history every mystery. Ever solved has turned out to be. Not Magic.
― Tim Minchin, Storm
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#7
RE: Do you trust people enough to not have any religion?
That is true belief has never stopped atrocity. The question would be though does belief prevent more minor crimes/immoralities. The thing that MAY be a problem though is someone who suddenly loses their faith just going wild for a bit because they are off the leash.

The theist who really wanted to steal who only didn't out of fear of God may now steal for example. Not necessarily always true but again it is a part of my cynicism with society..... at the same time though society has also done many good things as well.

Ultimately it is also religion that has pushed the idea that society is intrinsicly evil..... so maybe a big part of my cynicism is related to my religious background?... hmm...
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#8
RE: Do you trust people enough to not have any religion?
Quote:I sometimes worry that they may not be able to handle not being told what to do.


[img][Image: kkk_jesus_saves.gif][/img]


[Image: gibbonsburnR_468x319.jpg]

[Image: W_JEWISH-420x0.jpg]


I think you have the problem completely reversed, my friend. I worry far more about the ones who hear voices in their heads than the ones who don't.
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#9
RE: Do you trust people enough to not have any religion?
I do tend to trust people who exhibit prima facia evidence of intellectual honesty by eschewing religion more than those who exhibited prima facia evidence for intellectual promisicuity by embracing a religion.

A person who can embrace a religion is really capable of being talked into embracing any crap. A person who does not embrace religion is at least capable of resisting one kind of crap.
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#10
RE: Do you trust people enough to not have any religion?
Indeed, Chuck.

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities- Voltaire
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