What is good about theism and theists?

[Werewolff]

Well you've said a lot of positive things about theists. Of course I haven't said as much as you but that's because there was no need for me to mention what you've mentioned. But doesn't it follow that if good things can be said about theists, that good things can be said about theism? Religions promote things such as compassion, kindness, generosity, loving your fellow man, forgiveness, and so on. And it does a good job judging by the results. Not to mention non religious varieties of theism, which in my view are even better because they don't have all the baggage that organised religions have. But we all know this anyway. I just don't see why the need to blame innocent believers. Do they or do they not do nothing other than just get on with their lives, with a few religious principles to guide them? What's so bad about that?

I guess the most important thing I could say right now is that to defeat evil (I don't like using that word but that's what we're talking about), all good people must stand together against it. Atheist and theist. Put aside your differences and deal with what needs dealing with in a constructive way. Hasn't it ever occurred to you that some of these bad religious people do what they do partly in order to divide the rest of us? I would feel like such a mug if I fell for that.

Another point. Let's say that there's a person who believes in god. Then they believe in Jesus. Then they believe that he was the son of god. Then they start going to church. Then they start to believe a few other things in the bible. And so on and so forth. At what point do they begin to share the responsibility with bad religious people? And what if they are not silent about those bad people? Assuming guilt by association (in terms of sharing some views) is not constructive.

[NoMoreFaith]

I guess the most important thing I could say right now is that to defeat evil (I don't like using that word but that's what we're talking about), all good people must stand together against it. Atheist and theist. Put aside your differences and deal with what needs dealing with in a constructive way. Hasn't it ever occurred to you that some of these bad religious people do what they do partly in order to divide the rest of us? I would feel like such a mug if I fell for that.

No argument here. I don't object to theism, I'm not a militant anti-theist, but I am a weak anti-theist. The sooner the moderates realise that agnostic atheism is in their corner more than fundamentalism the better.

Another point. Let's say that there's a person who believes in god. Then they believe in Jesus. Then they believe that he was the son of god. Then they start going to church. Then they start to believe a few other things in the bible. And so on and so forth. At what point do they begin to share the responsibility with bad religious people? And what if they are not silent about those bad people? Assuming guilt by association (in terms of sharing some views) is not constructive.

As soon as they label themselves in the same overgroup as christian or muslim they do.

Assuming guilt by association is not constructive. Let me ask. At what point do you take responsibility for allowing them to take your faith in vain then?

I apologise if I do not answer any further today, alcohol and poker with my darling wife takes precedence, but I'm glad I've incited you to state an opinion.

Let's have a hug instead just now then I genuinely like you a lot.

[Werewolff]

Ok, so you would like to see moderate theists realise that you're on their side. So there you go. Was that the real issue all along, I wonder? But I genuinely think they probably do realise that. I think it's so so important for atheists and theists to engage in friendly dialogue, and when I see atheists on forums giving well meaning theists a hard time, it makes me despair. One minute they gang up on them with a huge interrogation (I've seen it so many times it's boring) then the next minute they bang on about fundies, whilst all along missing the point that everyone must unite rather than squabble. If bad theists doing bad things is such a huge problem, I would suggest that atheists do their bit in promoting unity with good theists. Forums are a great opportunity to do that. I'm sure the feeling would be mutual. If agnostic atheists are on the side of moderate theists, let's see these forums promoting that. Isn't it worth it? Don't you get bored of the same old routine being played out again and again every time a theist shows up? And hey, does it really matter if a good theist gives himself a label which is the same as that of a bad theist? Labels are labels, let's ignore them and see the person.

I don't take responsibility for anyone. We all live in our own world, I liken it to each of us being a country, with its own sovereignty and freedom. If I was a theist I wouldn't care what other theists call themselves or do. My life is my own. I judge people on their individual character. Life is way too short to waste it worrying about whether or not someone else is about to do something in your name. I can't determine what someone else is going to do, and in life there's always going to be some asshole about to do something or other so why not just crack open a beer and forget about it.

I love you too. We can carry on tomorrow or whenever.

[The Grand Nudger]

Yes, it gets very boring, and as soon as I stop seeing the same tired bullshit being trotted out I'll be alot less bored. If they can find these forums, they can find google, if they can find google there's no excuse for the shit that gets bandied about every single day here.

[Werewolff]

Can you elaborate?

[Welsh cake]

I think it would be productive to talk about what is good about theism and theists. So let's do that.

There are a lot of theists out there who, despite their flaws, are way more moral than the god they believe in, and that's reason enough to appreciate them by giving them your time of day.

Not forgetting that most of the irreligious are good honest working people like you or me and are our allies for the most part in promoting separation of church and state.

[Werewolff]

I too find theists to be very moral. And they're focussed on being moral. I think it's slightly over the top at times but I appreciate the effort.

[Catechism]

You have to account for yourself. Why worry about a few bad eggs. I know that the only person standing before God when I am judged is me.

[Darkstar]

[iameatingjam]

Theists can be good in the same ways anybody else can be good, there people.

Theism is bad because <insert one of many topics covered hundreds of times>