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RE: Dilemma for theists!
April 17, 2012 at 7:33 pm
(April 17, 2012 at 7:18 pm)genkaus Wrote: (April 17, 2012 at 6:39 pm)C Rod Wrote: The unfixable.
What's bad about a get out of jail free card?
What's wrong with believing the last second and acknowledging God while on earth? I think its worth something and certainly if its true. Is too much mercy a bad thing?
The same thing that's wrong with the judge giving his son a get-out-of-jail-free card. Its the same moral principle. Justice requires you to pay for your crimes in accordance with those crimes. Your god subverts the concept of justice by either granting undeserved mercy or by dishing out punishment without regard for the crime. Therefore, he is an unjust and an immoral entity.
Exactly, granting undeserved mercy, this is grace and salvation comes through that grace. The crimes are eternal sins, they are not forgiven because people do not ask for forgiveness through Jesus. Thus the sin remains eternal, and eternal sin deserves eternal punishment. When God forgives sin through Jesus, the sin is eternally cast away, and eternally forgotten.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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RE: Dilemma for theists!
April 17, 2012 at 7:34 pm
(This post was last modified: April 17, 2012 at 7:34 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Sounds disgusting. Are you here to explain the magic GC?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Dilemma for theists!
April 17, 2012 at 7:39 pm
(April 17, 2012 at 7:33 pm)Godschild Wrote: Exactly, granting undeserved mercy, this is grace and salvation comes through that grace. The crimes are eternal sins, they are not forgiven because people do not ask for forgiveness through Jesus. Thus the sin remains eternal, and eternal sin deserves eternal punishment. When God forgives sin through Jesus, the sin is eternally cast away, and eternally forgotten.
Firstly, thanks for proving my point. A god that hands out anything undeserved is unjust and immoral.
Secondly, how can something eternal originate from something temporal?
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RE: Dilemma for theists!
April 17, 2012 at 7:42 pm
(April 17, 2012 at 7:26 pm)Rhythm Wrote: You have the power to consider the morality you're championing honestly, without giving it a special pass just because you like ghost stories, aren't you?
If nobody can undo anything, whats the point of scapegoating and blood magic? All forgiveness requires is a thought. "I forgive you".
(You can end this conversation anytime you like, just stop responding, or tell me that you don't actually have any answers...then I'll stop asking questions, but I'll be a little disappointed. Here I am asking questions about jesus, I thought this was the path to salvation, Im always encouraged to ask questions about jesus by the faithful, they say they have answers....)
lol nice ending.
You want proof and i cant provide it. Those answers your really looking for right.
I see GC answered. Thanks The sin is forgotten something we rarely do even if say "I forgive you".
"Its not what your looking at that matters, its what you see." -Henry David Thoreau
♪Oh, I get lost in my mind Lost, I get lost I get Lost in my mind Lost in my Mind Yes, I get lost in my mind Lost, I get lost I get lost I get lost Oh, I get♪ -The Head and the Heart
"You are wise, witty and wonderful, but you spend too much time reading this sort of stuff.”- Frank Crane
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RE: Dilemma for theists!
April 17, 2012 at 7:50 pm
(April 17, 2012 at 7:34 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Sounds disgusting. Are you here to explain the magic GC?
There is no magic, it's all about love.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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RE: Dilemma for theists!
April 17, 2012 at 7:52 pm
(April 17, 2012 at 7:50 pm)Godschild Wrote: There is no magic, it's all about love.
A moral god would care more for justice.
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RE: Dilemma for theists!
April 17, 2012 at 8:00 pm
(This post was last modified: April 17, 2012 at 8:01 pm by Godscreated.)
(April 17, 2012 at 7:39 pm)genkaus Wrote: (April 17, 2012 at 7:33 pm)Godschild Wrote: Exactly, granting undeserved mercy, this is grace and salvation comes through that grace. The crimes are eternal sins, they are not forgiven because people do not ask for forgiveness through Jesus. Thus the sin remains eternal, and eternal sin deserves eternal punishment. When God forgives sin through Jesus, the sin is eternally cast away, and eternally forgotten.
Firstly, thanks for proving my point. A god that hands out anything undeserved is unjust and immoral.
Secondly, how can something eternal originate from something temporal?
I did not prove anything for you, you stated your opinion about God and your opinion is proof of nothing, other than you have one.
That's where you are making your mistake in understanding, you are eternal, and the sins you commit are eternally against the righteous God of creation, after all is said and done you belong to Him and there is nothing that will ever change this. He desires you spend eternity with Him, but if it is your desire not to then He will grant you your desire. God will never force that decision, no matter how much you want Him to.
(April 17, 2012 at 7:52 pm)genkaus Wrote: (April 17, 2012 at 7:50 pm)Godschild Wrote: There is no magic, it's all about love.
A moral god would care more for justice.
God's love is morality.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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RE: Dilemma for theists!
April 17, 2012 at 8:05 pm
(This post was last modified: April 17, 2012 at 8:08 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
If it's just forgiveness, then, again, why the theatrics? I asked this at the very beginning, pages ago. I don't have to scapegoat anyone to feel or show love GC (or forgiveness CRod), this seems a strange route to go for a god who is (at least presumably) less limited than myself as far as options when it comes to love (or forgiveness). Sounds like a "my magic isn't magic" comment. Well, over-ruled, it is magic. Are you as incapable of explaining it as CRod has been?
Gods scapegoating is forgiveness is love is morality? Let's just be honest, it's anything you want to call it whenever it suits whatever purpose you're leveraging it for, isn't it? Garbage, I'll pass.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Dilemma for theists!
April 17, 2012 at 8:16 pm
(April 17, 2012 at 8:05 pm)Rhythm Wrote: If it's just forgiveness, then, again, why the theatrics? I asked this at the very beginning, pages ago. I don't have to scapegoat anyone to feel or show love GC (or forgiveness CRod), this seems a strange route to go for a god who is (at least presumably) less limited than myself as far as options when it comes to love (or forgiveness). Sounds like a "my magic isn't magic" comment. Well, over-ruled, it is magic. Are you as incapable of explaining it as CRod has been?
Gods scapegoating is forgiveness is love is morality? Let's just be honest, it's anything you want to call it whenever it suits whatever purpose you're leveraging it for, isn't it? Garbage, I'll pass.
You can not forgive as God does, you will never forget the bad things that others have done to you, that would and you have not provided a way to eternal life, your magic fails, period. Just because you can not understand God's way doesn't mean it's not true and the only way. Passing on God's forgiveness, love and morality is a dangerous thing to do.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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RE: Dilemma for theists!
April 17, 2012 at 8:17 pm
(April 17, 2012 at 8:00 pm)Godschild Wrote: I did not prove anything for you, you stated your opinion about God and your opinion is proof of nothing, other than you have one.
And since I also gave justification for it, which you supported, then that opinion becomes objective fact.
(April 17, 2012 at 8:00 pm)Godschild Wrote: That's where you are making your mistake in understanding, you are eternal, and the sins you commit are eternally against the righteous God of creation, after all is said and done you belong to Him and there is nothing that will ever change this. He desires you spend eternity with Him, but if it is your desire not to then He will grant you your desire. God will never force that decision, no matter how much you want Him to.
Who the fuck is talking about me? My actions are what produce sin. My actions are temporal. How is the result of my temporal actions eternal?
On a side note, I'm eternal? Meaning that I exist for all time? Then where was I before my birth?
(April 17, 2012 at 8:00 pm)Godschild Wrote: God's love is morality.
Then his morality is self-contradictory, if it leads him to immoral actions.
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