Is purposeless torture moral?

[The Grand Nudger]

How would one distance himself from the lord of the fucking cosmos, moving in through and around everything that exists? Always watching, always sustaining whatever thing with its continued presence? This "separation from god" bit that fundies have latched onto (recently I might add) is some pretty weak stuff. That's the secular influence on religious faith. The fire and brimstone bit wasn't filling the pews, people want a buddy jesus now, and churches have bills to pay.

[Drich]

Would it be "moral" or Righteous to drag one of you who have been trying to put distance between yourselves and God all of your natural lives, into heaven for an eternity kicking and screaming?

How exactly does one distance themselves from something they don't believe in?

If you don't believe in something do you align your self with it, or put distance between yourself and what you don't believe?

I didn't say you couldn't have a reason, I only pointed to the end result.

[TheJackel]

Please show me were you find the word torture in scripture, if you can not then please drop the subject, this subject has been posted to death.

Define the word torture:

tor·ture
   [tawr-cher] Show IPA noun, verb, tor·tured, tor·tur·ing.
noun
1.
the act of inflicting excruciating pain, as punishment or revenge, as a means of getting a confession or information, or for sheer cruelty.
2.
a method of inflicting such pain.
3.
Often, tortures. the pain or suffering caused or undergone.
4.
extreme anguish of body or mind; agony.
5.
a cause of severe pain or anguish.

Let's define the word torment:

tor·ment
   [v. tawr-ment, tawr-ment; n. tawr-ment] Show IPA
verb (used with object)
1.
to afflict with great bodily or mental suffering; pain: to be tormented with violent headaches.
2.
to worry or annoy excessively: to torment one with questions.
3.
to throw into commotion; stir up; disturb.
noun
4.
a state of great bodily or mental suffering; agony; misery.
5.
something that causes great bodily or mental pain or suffering.
6.
a source of much trouble, worry, or annoyance.
7.
an instrument of torture, as the rack or the thumbscrew.
8.
the infliction of torture by means of such an instrument or the torture so inflicted.

let's watch a video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMXoPhgTkuY&

And now let's examine scripture:

* Mark 9:48 "where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched"

* Revelation 14:10 "he will be tormented with fire and brimstone"

* Revelation 14:11 "the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever and they have no rest day and night"
* Revelation 20:14 "This is the second death, the lake of fire"

* The man in Luke 16:24 cries: ". . .I am tormented in this FLAME."

* In Matthew 13:42, Jesus says: "And shall cast them into a FURNACE OF FIRE: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."

* In Matthew 25:41, Jesus says: "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting FIRE,. . ."

* Revelation 20:15 "If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire"

* Numbers 16:32-33: And THE EARTH OPENED HER MOUTH, and swallowed them up, and their houses, and all the men that appertained unto Korah, and all their goods. They, and all that appertained to them, went down alive INTO THE PIT, and the EARTH CLOSED UPON THEM

"In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:" -2nd Thessalonians 1:8

"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." -Revelation 21:8

"And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." -Revelation 20:13-15

* 29But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.

* Revelation 20:10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet [are.] And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

* Thessalonians 1:7-9 The Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power

MATTHEW 10:28 “Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One(God) who can destroy both soul and body in hell.”(4)

Oh and that is more volcano God cult stuff, sorry!

[Godscreated]

Please show me were you find the word torture in scripture, if you can not then please drop the subject, this subject has been posted to death.

Matthew 13:50 “furnace of fire…weeping and gnashing of teeth”
Mark 9:48 “where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched”
Revelation 14:10 “he will be tormented with fire and brimstone”
Revelation 14:11 “the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever and they have no rest day and night”

Maybe not the word torture itself but words to that effect. Unless you consider torment an afterlife pillow fight.

Torment:
- Great physical pain or mental anguish.
- A source of harassment, annoyance, or pain.
- The torture inflicted on prisoners under interrogation.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/torment

Did not see the word torture in those verses, did see an application of judgement by an absolute righteous God.

[Drich]

How would one distance himself from the lord of the fucking cosmos, moving in through and around everything that exists? Always watching, always sustaining whatever thing with its continued presence? This "separation from god" bit that fundies have latched onto (recently I might add) is some pretty weak stuff. That's the secular influence on religious faith. The fire and brimstone bit wasn't filling the pews, people want a buddy jesus now, and churches have bills to pay.

What of he who bring you this message and does not repersent a church or even a specific denomination?

[Minimalist]

I think it may be morally justified then to try to torture the information out of him.

http://www.livescience.com/4651-torture-...rking.html

But aside from the moral and legal implications, does torture ever produce reliable intelligence?

"That's the impossible question," said Darius Rejali, a political scientist at Reed College in Oregon.

As a rule, torture is not an effective method of extracting information from prisoners, most experts agree.

"If anything useful came out these interrogations in Iraq, we would have heard about it," said Alfred McCoy, a University of Wisconsin-Madison historian and author of "A Question of Torture: CIA Interrogation, From the Cold War to the War on Terror" (Holt Paperbacks, 2006).

You'll have to do a lot better than quote a miserable fuck like Dick Cheney.

[Reforged]

Is purposeful torture moral?

(The Dick Cheney Book of Xtian Morality apparently thinks so.)

Depends if we arranged a safety word beforehand.

[TheJackel]

Godchild, Did you not read the definition of the two words I posted? Clearly not... And its always interesting to see theists such as yourself try to rationalize such things on a game of word semantics so you can claim such things a being "righteous". It's where genocide and infanticide suddenly become morally perfect concepts and beliefs.. It's where hate and bigotry become moral fortitude. And that really exposes how psychologically messed up many Christians are. It's literally laughable when you see a Christian cry about being Pro-life when they worship a deity they claim has committed mass abortion, genocide, and infanticide.. It's like you can't get stupid to be any smarter or intellectually grander than sheer and utter stupidity. So lets look at the type argument Godchild wrote:

Did not see the word torture in those verses, did see an application of judgement by an absolute righteous God.

He worships a genocidal and infanticidal role model.. His religious beliefs and doctrine view such things as righteous. It why you get nut cases like Hitler committing genocide.. Lets make a comparison here:

Genesis 6:7 And the LORD said, "I will wipe this human race I have created from the face of the earth. Yes, and I will destroy every living thing--all the people, the large animals, the small animals that scurry along the ground, and even the birds of the sky. I am sorry I ever made them."

Genesis 6:17 I am going to bring floodwaters on the earth to destroy all life under the heavens, every creature that has the breath of life in it. Everything on earth will perish.

Genesis 7:4 Seven days from now I will send rain on the earth for forty days and forty nights, and I will wipe from the face of the earth every living creature I have made."

I am going to bring floodwaters on the earth to destroy all life under the heavens, every creature that has the breath of life in it. Everything on earth will perish.

Genesis 7:21 Every living thing that moved on the earth perished--birds, livestock, wild animals, all the creatures that swarm over the earth, and all mankind.

Genesis 7:22 Everything on dry land that had the breath of life in its nostrils died.

Deut: 13:13 -18

13that certain® worthless fellows have gone out among you and have drawn away the inhabitants of their city, saying, 'Let us go and serve other gods,' which you have not known, 14then you shall inquire and make search and ask(S) diligently. And behold, if it be true and certain that such an abomination has been done among you, 15you shall surely put the inhabitants of that city to the sword, devoting it to destruction,[c] all who are in it and its cattle, with the edge of the sword. 16You shall gather all its spoil into the midst of its open square and(T) burn the city and all its spoil with fire, as a whole burnt offering to the LORD your God. It shall be a(U) heap forever. It shall not be built again. 17(V) None of the devoted things shall stick to your hand,(W) that the LORD may turn from the fierceness of his anger and show you mercy and have compassion on you and multiply you,(X) as he swore to your fathers, 18if you obey the voice of the LORD your God,(Y) keeping all his commandments that I am commanding you today, and doing what is right in the sight of the LORD your God.

OR you get crazy stuff like this:

And by the same word, the present heavens and earth have been stored up for fire. They are being kept for the day of judgment, when ungodly people will be destroyed.

And lets look at Hitler:

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."

--

"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.

-Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942)

Compared to:

Switchblade on newsvine:

Like I said, I am willing to die for my belief that homosexuality is wrong and there should be a law on the books stating it is wrong. Passing a law encouraging homosexuality, making it 'legal,' or giving the lifesyle marriage rights will not change my mind or stop me from fighting homosexuality.

Other Christian fundamentalists and extremists:

“I want you to just let a wave of intolerance wash over you. I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good… Our goal is a Christian nation. We have a biblical duty, we are called on by God to conquer this country. We don’t want equal time. We don’t want pluralism.”

Randall Terry, founder of Operation Rescue

--

“So let us be blunt about it: We must use the doctrine of religious liberty to gain independence for Christian schools until we train up a generation of people who know that there is no religious neutrality, no neutral law, no neutral education, and no neutral civil government. Then they will be get busy in constructing a Bible-based social, political and religious order which finally denies the religious liberty of the enemies of God.”

–Gary North

See any resemblance? Yep, the same personality types and the same kind of psychotic mentality.. This to which is a huge contrast to something like being Ahimsa:

Ahimsa (Sanskrit: अहिंसा; IAST: ahiṃsā, Pāli: avihiṃsā) is a term meaning to do no harm (literally: the avoidance of violence – himsa). The word is derived from the Sanskrit root hims – to strike; himsa is injury or harm, a-himsa is the opposite of this, i.e. non harming or nonviolence.[1][2]

It is an important tenet of the Indian religions (Hinduism, Jainism and Buddhism). Ahimsa means kindness and non-violence towards all living things including non-human animals; it respects living beings as a unity, the belief that all living things are connected.

So when you see people like GODChild claim such things as genocide as "righteous", you know he's seriously messed up psychologically. To give you an example, it would be no different than someone here worshiping GODchild if he were to do the following:

GodChild gets a Camera and goes to record himself drowning baby bunnies, kittens, puppies, or a few newborn infants while exclaiming how they are an abomination, unclean, and how he's sorry for ever having to share this world with them. He then Puts it on youtube and then comes back to me on how that was rationally, morally, and ethically righteous. Then he demands you love him for it while his followers ask us if we have enough love him for drowning a baby bunny.. Kinda like this one :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSFB2ytWJLQ

But he has competition as he can than place himself right up there with the GI's that killed a puppy!.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdyN2_GJmP8

Hey, that was a unclean puppy, so GOD shouldn't care.

Well, Genesis really doesn't give anyone a good moral role model to follow. The GOD depicted in the bible can best be described as a psychopath with many psychological disorders that includes a severe case of Volcanic Narcissism. :/

[Ace Otana]

Would it be "moral" or Righteous to drag one of you who have been trying to put distance between yourselves and God all of your natural lives, into heaven for an eternity kicking and screaming? If you can not stand the thought of God for 60 or 70 years what makes you think you can tolerate His presents for an eternity?

The simple solution is to go into oblivion. Besides even if I did believe in god, I still don't want to live forever. Heaven would still be hell for me. So why not solve the problem by allowing a third option? Oblivion.

[Faith No More]

If you don't believe in something do you align your self with it, or put distance between yourself and what you don't believe?

How about you can't align yourself either way with something you believe to be entirely fictional.