Is purposeless torture moral?

[Ace Otana]

Oh my ace i didnt mean to offend you. just putting in my 2 cents here. Im not asking you to subscribe to my beliefs or anything here boss. Im simply saying what I believe. Thats for me. They tell us as kids to look both ways before you cross the street. You can choose to not do it and believe that nothing is coming however, if it is, you are still gettin splatted if there is a car that is coming. reguardless if you believed it to be or not.

No offence taken old chap. Simply highlighting what I see as a flaw. Can't choose to go to a place you don't even believe exists. Makes no sense.

[Disciple]

Oh my ace i didnt mean to offend you. just putting in my 2 cents here. Im not asking you to subscribe to my beliefs or anything here boss. Im simply saying what I believe. Thats for me. They tell us as kids to look both ways before you cross the street. You can choose to not do it and believe that nothing is coming however, if it is, you are still gettin splatted if there is a car that is coming. reguardless if you believed it to be or not.

No offence taken old chap. Simply highlighting what I see as a flaw. Can't choose to go to a place you don't even believe exists. Makes no sense.

Thats what makes this place cool in my opinion. we can have different views and talk about them without sombody getting all bent out of shape. What i say is what I believe. from your perspective what you say does make perfect sense. Good day to you sir.

[Ace Otana]

Thats what makes this place cool in my opinion. we can have different views and talk about them without sombody getting all bent out of shape. What i say is what I believe. from your perspective what you say does make perfect sense. Good day to you sir.

I like it when discussions are kept civil. Helps when sharing differing views and understanding each other.
Jolly good day to you sir. [Raises cop'o tea]

[Cinjin]

Your opinion is allowed here. Allow me to give you mine for a moment ...

About weather hell is a literal or symbolic place the christian faith clearly desctibes it as a real physical place that is eternal seperation from God.

Agreed, and yet MANY Christians, including godschild claim that the Bible didn't REALLY mean a real place of eternal fire, and they adamantly stand by this. So which one of you is the True Christian? Cause you both claim the other is wrong. My only point here is that, you have no business telling the non-christians that they're going to spend an eternity in Hell when your own people can't even agree on it's purpose and design.

It is my personal belief that those that go to hell were given the lifetime needed to make their decision about where they would choose to go.

Do your personal beliefs take into account people who never heard the name of Christ? Because if you crunch the numbers, there is somewhere between 80 and 90 billion souls who have lived and died on this planet without Christianity and over half of those never even heard the name of Christ.

At the time of death whatever decision was made was the only decision that would have ever been made by that person. Even if given a million years on earth they would have still chosen to be apart from God.

Typical christian arrogance. There's absolutely no way that you can know that. Completely unprovable. Have you ever been alive for a million years? How do you know they wouldn't have changed their mind next year?? Especially considering that they might not have even been introduced to Christianity. Accident of birth is a bitch! Fuck those tribesmen in the Amazon right?

So God sends nobody to hell people choose to go there.

Click here to get my thoughts on this RIDICULOUS statement. The Bible is very clear on this. Your god casts people into hell. Nobody would ever torture themselves for even a day, let alone an eternity. This is apologists greasy rhetoric. Are you a True Christian or not? Because True Christians are honest and often tell the unrighteous that their god will INDEED cast them into the Hell.

The bible states that hell is seperation from god and also all good things come from god, so if god isnt there than nothing good is there either hence the flames and brimstone and whatnot. It even says that people in hell are still unrepentant so they still choose to be there as crazy as that sounds to me personally. So its not that is purposless torture as in trying to get information from sombody its just a destination that is arrived at by people with the perspective that heaven is hell.

Distasteful as your ideas are, they are very common around here. Just know that although your opinion is welcome here ... so is ours, and if you're going to make crazy assertions about your religion, we're going to need to see one of these:


...otherwise the True Christians who dispute everything you say might sway me to thinking they're right and you're wrong.

on the other hand, I might think you're all just brainwashed.

[Disciple]

Your opinion is allowed here. Allow me to give you mine for a moment ...

About weather hell is a literal or symbolic place the christian faith clearly desctibes it as a real physical place that is eternal seperation from God.

Agreed, and yet MANY Christians, including godschild claim that the Bible didn't REALLY mean a real place of eternal fire, and they adamantly stand by this. So which one of you is the True Christian? Cause you both claim the other is wrong. My only point here is that, you have no business telling the non-christians that they're going to spend an eternity in Hell when your own people can't even agree on it's purpose and design.

It is my personal belief that those that go to hell were given the lifetime needed to make their decision about where they would choose to go.

Do your personal beliefs take into account people who never heard the name of Christ? Because if you crunch the numbers, there is somewhere between 80 and 90 billion souls who have lived and died on this planet without Christianity and over half of those never even heard the name of Christ.

At the time of death whatever decision was made was the only decision that would have ever been made by that person. Even if given a million years on earth they would have still chosen to be apart from God.

Typical christian arrogance. There's absolutely no way that you can know that. Completely unprovable. Have you ever been alive for a million years? How do you know they wouldn't have changed their mind next year?? Especially considering that they might not have even been introduced to Christianity. Accident of birth is a bitch! Fuck those tribesmen in the Amazon right?

So God sends nobody to hell people choose to go there.

Click here to get my thoughts on this RIDICULOUS statement. The Bible is very clear on this. Your god casts people into hell. Nobody would ever torture themselves for even a day, let alone an eternity. This is apologists greasy rhetoric. Are you a True Christian or not? Because True Christians are honest and often tell the unrighteous that their god will INDEED cast them into the Hell.

The bible states that hell is seperation from god and also all good things come from god, so if god isnt there than nothing good is there either hence the flames and brimstone and whatnot. It even says that people in hell are still unrepentant so they still choose to be there as crazy as that sounds to me personally. So its not that is purposless torture as in trying to get information from sombody its just a destination that is arrived at by people with the perspective that heaven is hell.

Distasteful as your ideas are, they are very common around here. Just know that although your opinion is welcome here ... so is ours, and if you're going to make crazy assertions about your religion, we're going to need to see one of these:


...otherwise the True Christians who dispute everything you say might sway me to thinking they're right and you're wrong.

on the other hand, I might think you're all just brainwashed.

Well cinjin, my friend I will try to elaborate a bit on what I wrote hopefully it will clear the air a bit. Godchilds and my own opinion on hell could be totally different however both of us could be true christians. Adoption into the family of God isnt based on ones belief on wheather hell is real or symbolic. And honestly it dosent matter to me if he sways your opinion or if i sway your opinion. As i said in the introduction page.. im not here to sway opinions. And It certainly isnt my place to decide or predict whos gonna go to hell and who isnt. I would never ever never ever never tell anybody that they would go to hell. Its arrogant at best to do that. At worst its trying to play God.

Now about the comment I made about people not changing their mind if they had a million years or whatever crazy time limit i gave. I said thats my personal belief. Thats for me. What I base that on is where the bible says people in hell are unrepentant. And much like children that have not reached the age of accountability people who have never been introduced to christianity go to heaven from how I understand it. I am greatful that my opinions are welcome here. After all,this is an atheist forum. I would expect nothing less than to be questioned. I welcome that as well. My belief is that God will not judge a man untill he dies, there is no way I would dare judge a man while hes still alive.

[Godscreated]

@ deciple, Hi good to have you here, hope your journey here is spiritually profitable. Cinjin is correct in saying we have different opinions about hell, I do believe that hell's a real place and it's a place of punishment. Cinjin is wrong as you stated that one of the two of us can't be Christians because we see hell differently, Cinjin is also wrong about me believing that my thoughts on hell are the only ones that are true, I've stated many times that is my opinion. Just so you will understand (and I put it in the open for all to see, because I do not want to be accused of PMing to cause trouble, PMs are not private on this forum, I'm OK with that now that I know it) back to what I was going to say, Cinjin and a few others will try and shade what Christians say to drive a wedge between them. He believes we are as petty as he is, ain't that right Cinjin my friend. Hope to see you in many discussions Disciple again thanks for joining in.

[Disciple]

@ deciple, Hi good to have you here, hope your journey here is spiritually profitable. Cinjin is correct in saying we have different opinions about hell, I do believe that hell's a real place and it's a place of punishment. Cinjin is wrong as you stated that one of the two of us can't be Christians because we see hell differently, Cinjin is also wrong about me believing that my thoughts on hell are the only ones that are true, I've stated many times that is my opinion. Just so you will understand (and I put it in the open for all to see, because I do not want to be accused of PMing to cause trouble, PMs are not private on this forum, I'm OK with that now that I know it) back to what I was going to say, Cinjin and a few others will try and shade what Christians say to drive a wedge between them. He believes we are as petty as he is, ain't that right Cinjin my friend. Hope to see you in many discussions Disciple again thanks for joining in.

Thanks for the heads up and the welcome brother.

[Minimalist]

I have not said that one will burn in hell forever, as a matter of fact denial of heaven is what I have proposed, that hell is a lonely and dark place.

Goodness, G-C...you always act as if you have read this bullshit.

The Judgment of the Dead
11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

Revelation 20

Maybe you better get yourself a refresher course before you find yourself immersed in fire up to your hairline for "eternity."


Really. How could anyone fall for such utter bullshit?

[Godscreated]

I have not said that one will burn in hell forever, as a matter of fact denial of heaven is what I have proposed, that hell is a lonely and dark place.

Goodness, G-C...you always act as if you have read this bullshit.

The Judgment of the Dead
11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

Revelation 20

Maybe you better get yourself a refresher course before you find yourself immersed in fire up to your hairline for "eternity."


Really. How could anyone fall for such utter bullshit?

I have my opinion on what hell is, most in my arena do not agree and that does not bother them or me, so why should I worry about what you think, really.

[Minimalist]

Because its your fucking book.


I think its horseshit but you are supposed to "believe" in this nonsense.