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(April 15, 2012 at 9:07 am)Christian Wrote: My dear friend, why don't you, for once, ignore your own biased interpetations and see the Bible for what it was meant to be ... the word of God.
Why don't you, for once, ignore your own biased interpretations and see the Bible for what it was meant to be. Horse shit.
(April 15, 2012 at 5:32 pm)Phil Wrote: Fine, do it again and we will see what the mods call it.
I have the utmost respect for moderators here. If they don't ban you for continuously using disrespectful remarks and complete disregard for etiquettes of communication, I don't think they will ban me for poitely asking you to consider both sides to the argument.
I see that you are ignoring my list of bible contradictions.
Why is that?
If you're not supposed to ride faster than your guardian angel can fly then mine had better get a bloody SR-71.
The Jesus archetype was historized into the Bible for political purposes by The Roman Catholic institute of religious propaganda. The Church forged documents (e.g. Josephus) and rewrote dogma time and time again to reinforce their legal powers. Oh yeah, and Jesus did not exist because normal people don't rise from the dead either.
You, yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection.
There are only two mistakes one can make along the road to truth; not going all the way, and not starting.
(April 15, 2012 at 9:36 pm)Bgood Wrote: The Jesus archetype was historized into the Bible for political purposes by The Roman Catholic institute of religious propaganda. The Church forged documents (e.g. Josephus) and rewrote dogma time and time again to reinforce their legal powers. Oh yeah, and Jesus did not exist because normal people don't rise from the dead either.
Even Chuck Norris can't rise from the dead... cause Chuck Norris can't be killed. -.-
April 16, 2012 at 3:29 am (This post was last modified: April 16, 2012 at 3:30 am by FallentoReason.)
Christian Wrote:How can 40 different authors over a period of 1500 years write a collection of work that doesn't contradict itself??
Simple. They didn't write non-contradictory works.
Is there an unforgivable sin?
NO
Acts 13:39 and by him all that believe are justified from all things.
YES
Mark 3:29 but he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.
Luke 12:10 but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.
I've been trying to look for an answer. Maybe you understand better than me.
I found another just today actually..
Can God do anything?
YES
Matthew 19:26, Mark 10:27 with God all things are possible.
Luke 1:37 for with God nothing shall be impossible.
Revelation 19:6 the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
NO
Hebrews 6:18 it was impossible for God to lie.
Judges 1:19 and the Lord was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.
Let me know if there's a solution.
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it" ~ Aristotle
April 16, 2012 at 4:33 am (This post was last modified: April 16, 2012 at 4:38 am by feyenascrystal.)
(April 13, 2012 at 7:57 pm)Alter2Ego Wrote: ALTER2EGO -to- EVERYONE:
A favorite argument by non-believers is that Jesus Christ's existence is confined to the pages of the Judeo-Christian Bible. When presented with documentary evidence of his historical existence, Bible critics then use another ploy: they attack the credibility of those who confirmed the existence of Jesus Christ and/or they attack the credibility of what was written about Jesus Christ.
Below are three non-Christians from the 1st Century AD who mentioned Jesus Christ in their secular writings. The questions for debate are at the end of this post.
PERSON #1: Name and Occupation: Cornelius Tacitus, Roman Historian
DOB to Date of Death: A.D. 55 to A.D. 120
Attitude Towards Christianity: Hostile
What He Said: He confirmed that CHRISTUS (a common misspelling of Christ at the time) was executed by Pilate.
Highlights on Tacitus: A Roman historian who lived through the reign of over a half-dozen Roman emperors, Tacitus has been called "the greatest historian of ancient Rome."
PERSON #2: Name and Occupation: Flavius Josephus, Jewish Historian
DOB to Date of Death: 37 AD -- Died after 100 AD
Attitude Towards Christianity: Apathetic (could care less about them)
What He Said: He confirmed that Christ who performed miracles was executed by Pilate.
Highlights on Josephus: A Jewish historian of priestly and royal ancestry who recorded Jewish history, with special emphasis on the 1st century AD (the century in which Jesus Christ lived and died). He has been credited by many as recording some of the earliest history of Jesus Christ outside of the gospels. Flavius Josephus belonged to the group of Jewish religious leaders--the Pharisees--responsible for Jesus' death.
Flavius Josephus joined the zealots who rebelled against Roman rule between 66 and 74 AD, becoming a leader of their forces in Galilee, and living through the Roman destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70. He was captured by the Romans, and would have been executed, but he went over to their side and ended up becoming the Roman emperor's Adviser on Jewish Affairs.
PERSON #3: Name and Occupation: Pliny The Younger (born Gaius Plinius Caecilius Secundus), Roman Governor
DOB to Date of Death: 61 AD to 112 AD
Attitude Towards Christianity: Hostile. He executed Christians
What He Said: Referred to Christ as a "god of the Christians."
Highlights on Pliny: Pliny condemned Men, Women, and children to death if they refused to curse Christ and if they refused to deny they were Christians.
DISCUSSION QUESTIONS:
1. All three of the individuals described above were people in powerful positions who were anti-Christian and belonged to groups that actively killed Christians. All three individuals belonged to organizations that were responsible for Jesus' death. What did they have to gain from mentioning the existence of Jesus Christ in their writings--thereby confirming his earthly existence?
2. Flavius Josephus, a Jew, was born a mere four years after Jesus was executed. He became a Jewish Pharisee as an adult, in addition to becoming a respected historian and advisor to the Roman emperor. Do you see anything significant to his being a Pharisee, a historian, and Roman emperor advisor--and the fact that he mentioned Jesus Christ in his writings?
3. Cornelius Tactitus was known as the greatest historian of his time, during which he lived through the reign of over a half-dozen Roman emperors. Do you see anything significant to his resume and the fact that he mentioned Jesus Christ in his writings?
(April 16, 2012 at 4:33 am)feyenascrystal Wrote:
(April 13, 2012 at 7:57 pm)Alter2Ego Wrote: ALTER2EGO -to- EVERYONE:
Christus or Christos means the anointed one and is a title and Josephus's writings was a proven fraud it is sad it is still cited as truth A favorite argument by non-believers is that Jesus Christ's existence is confined to the pages of the Judeo-Christian Bible. When presented with documentary evidence of his historical existence, Bible critics then use another ploy: they attack the credibility of those who confirmed the existence of Jesus Christ and/or they attack the credibility of what was written about Jesus Christ.
Below are three non-Christians from the 1st Century AD who mentioned Jesus Christ in their secular writings. The questions for debate are at the end of this post.
PERSON #1: Name and Occupation: Cornelius Tacitus, Roman Historian
DOB to Date of Death: A.D. 55 to A.D. 120
Attitude Towards Christianity: Hostile
What He Said: He confirmed that CHRISTUS (a common misspelling of Christ at the time) was executed by Pilate.
Highlights on Tacitus: A Roman historian who lived through the reign of over a half-dozen Roman emperors, Tacitus has been called "the greatest historian of ancient Rome."
PERSON #2: Name and Occupation: Flavius Josephus, Jewish Historian
DOB to Date of Death: 37 AD -- Died after 100 AD
Attitude Towards Christianity: Apathetic (could care less about them)
What He Said: He confirmed that Christ who performed miracles was executed by Pilate.
Highlights on Josephus: A Jewish historian of priestly and royal ancestry who recorded Jewish history, with special emphasis on the 1st century AD (the century in which Jesus Christ lived and died). He has been credited by many as recording some of the earliest history of Jesus Christ outside of the gospels. Flavius Josephus belonged to the group of Jewish religious leaders--the Pharisees--responsible for Jesus' death.
Flavius Josephus joined the zealots who rebelled against Roman rule between 66 and 74 AD, becoming a leader of their forces in Galilee, and living through the Roman destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70. He was captured by the Romans, and would have been executed, but he went over to their side and ended up becoming the Roman emperor's Adviser on Jewish Affairs.
PERSON #3: Name and Occupation: Pliny The Younger (born Gaius Plinius Caecilius Secundus), Roman Governor
DOB to Date of Death: 61 AD to 112 AD
Attitude Towards Christianity: Hostile. He executed Christians
What He Said: Referred to Christ as a "god of the Christians."
Highlights on Pliny: Pliny condemned Men, Women, and children to death if they refused to curse Christ and if they refused to deny they were Christians.
DISCUSSION QUESTIONS:
1. All three of the individuals described above were people in powerful positions who were anti-Christian and belonged to groups that actively killed Christians. All three individuals belonged to organizations that were responsible for Jesus' death. What did they have to gain from mentioning the existence of Jesus Christ in their writings--thereby confirming his earthly existence?
2. Flavius Josephus, a Jew, was born a mere four years after Jesus was executed. He became a Jewish Pharisee as an adult, in addition to becoming a respected historian and advisor to the Roman emperor. Do you see anything significant to his being a Pharisee, a historian, and Roman emperor advisor--and the fact that he mentioned Jesus Christ in his writings?
3. Cornelius Tactitus was known as the greatest historian of his time, during which he lived through the reign of over a half-dozen Roman emperors. Do you see anything significant to his resume and the fact that he mentioned Jesus Christ in his writings?
(April 13, 2012 at 7:57 pm)Alter2Ego Wrote: ALTER2EGO -to- EVERYONE:
A favorite argument by non-believers is that Jesus Christ's existence is confined to the pages of the Judeo-Christian Bible. When presented with documentary evidence of his historical existence, Bible critics then use another ploy: they attack the credibility of those who confirmed the existence of Jesus Christ and/or they attack the credibility of what was written about Jesus Christ.
Below are three non-Christians from the 1st Century AD who mentioned Jesus Christ in their secular writings. The questions for debate are at the end of this post.
PERSON #1: Name and Occupation: Cornelius Tacitus, Roman Historian
DOB to Date of Death: A.D. 55 to A.D. 120
Attitude Towards Christianity: Hostile
What He Said: He confirmed that CHRISTUS (a common misspelling of Christ at the time) was executed by Pilate.
Highlights on Tacitus: A Roman historian who lived through the reign of over a half-dozen Roman emperors, Tacitus has been called "the greatest historian of ancient Rome."
PERSON #2: Name and Occupation: Flavius Josephus, Jewish Historian
DOB to Date of Death: 37 AD -- Died after 100 AD
Attitude Towards Christianity: Apathetic (could care less about them)
What He Said: He confirmed that Christ who performed miracles was executed by Pilate.
Highlights on Josephus: A Jewish historian of priestly and royal ancestry who recorded Jewish history, with special emphasis on the 1st century AD (the century in which Jesus Christ lived and died). He has been credited by many as recording some of the earliest history of Jesus Christ outside of the gospels. Flavius Josephus belonged to the group of Jewish religious leaders--the Pharisees--responsible for Jesus' death.
Flavius Josephus joined the zealots who rebelled against Roman rule between 66 and 74 AD, becoming a leader of their forces in Galilee, and living through the Roman destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70. He was captured by the Romans, and would have been executed, but he went over to their side and ended up becoming the Roman emperor's Adviser on Jewish Affairs.
PERSON #3: Name and Occupation: Pliny The Younger (born Gaius Plinius Caecilius Secundus), Roman Governor
DOB to Date of Death: 61 AD to 112 AD
Attitude Towards Christianity: Hostile. He executed Christians
What He Said: Referred to Christ as a "god of the Christians."
Highlights on Pliny: Pliny condemned Men, Women, and children to death if they refused to curse Christ and if they refused to deny they were Christians.
DISCUSSION QUESTIONS:
1. All three of the individuals described above were people in powerful positions who were anti-Christian and belonged to groups that actively killed Christians. All three individuals belonged to organizations that were responsible for Jesus' death. What did they have to gain from mentioning the existence of Jesus Christ in their writings--thereby confirming his earthly existence?
2. Flavius Josephus, a Jew, was born a mere four years after Jesus was executed. He became a Jewish Pharisee as an adult, in addition to becoming a respected historian and advisor to the Roman emperor. Do you see anything significant to his being a Pharisee, a historian, and Roman emperor advisor--and the fact that he mentioned Jesus Christ in his writings?
3. Cornelius Tactitus was known as the greatest historian of his time, during which he lived through the reign of over a half-dozen Roman emperors. Do you see anything significant to his resume and the fact that he mentioned Jesus Christ in his writings?
(April 16, 2012 at 4:33 am)feyenascrystal Wrote:
(April 13, 2012 at 7:57 pm)Alter2Ego Wrote: ALTER2EGO -to- EVERYONE:
Christus or Christos means the anointed one and is a title and Josephus's writings was a proven fraud it is sad it is still cited as truth A favorite argument by non-believers is that Jesus Christ's existence is confined to the pages of the Judeo-Christian Bible. When presented with documentary evidence of his historical existence, Bible critics then use another ploy: they attack the credibility of those who confirmed the existence of Jesus Christ and/or they attack the credibility of what was written about Jesus Christ.
Below are three non-Christians from the 1st Century AD who mentioned Jesus Christ in their secular writings. The questions for debate are at the end of this post.
PERSON #1: Name and Occupation: Cornelius Tacitus, Roman Historian
DOB to Date of Death: A.D. 55 to A.D. 120
Attitude Towards Christianity: Hostile
What He Said: He confirmed that CHRISTUS (a common misspelling of Christ at the time) was executed by Pilate.
Highlights on Tacitus: A Roman historian who lived through the reign of over a half-dozen Roman emperors, Tacitus has been called "the greatest historian of ancient Rome."
PERSON #2: Name and Occupation: Flavius Josephus, Jewish Historian
DOB to Date of Death: 37 AD -- Died after 100 AD
Attitude Towards Christianity: Apathetic (could care less about them)
What He Said: He confirmed that Christ who performed miracles was executed by Pilate.
Highlights on Josephus: A Jewish historian of priestly and royal ancestry who recorded Jewish history, with special emphasis on the 1st century AD (the century in which Jesus Christ lived and died). He has been credited by many as recording some of the earliest history of Jesus Christ outside of the gospels. Flavius Josephus belonged to the group of Jewish religious leaders--the Pharisees--responsible for Jesus' death.
Flavius Josephus joined the zealots who rebelled against Roman rule between 66 and 74 AD, becoming a leader of their forces in Galilee, and living through the Roman destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70. He was captured by the Romans, and would have been executed, but he went over to their side and ended up becoming the Roman emperor's Adviser on Jewish Affairs.
PERSON #3: Name and Occupation: Pliny The Younger (born Gaius Plinius Caecilius Secundus), Roman Governor
DOB to Date of Death: 61 AD to 112 AD
Attitude Towards Christianity: Hostile. He executed Christians
What He Said: Referred to Christ as a "god of the Christians."
Highlights on Pliny: Pliny condemned Men, Women, and children to death if they refused to curse Christ and if they refused to deny they were Christians.
DISCUSSION QUESTIONS:
1. All three of the individuals described above were people in powerful positions who were anti-Christian and belonged to groups that actively killed Christians. All three individuals belonged to organizations that were responsible for Jesus' death. What did they have to gain from mentioning the existence of Jesus Christ in their writings--thereby confirming his earthly existence?
2. Flavius Josephus, a Jew, was born a mere four years after Jesus was executed. He became a Jewish Pharisee as an adult, in addition to becoming a respected historian and advisor to the Roman emperor. Do you see anything significant to his being a Pharisee, a historian, and Roman emperor advisor--and the fact that he mentioned Jesus Christ in his writings?
3. Cornelius Tactitus was known as the greatest historian of his time, during which he lived through the reign of over a half-dozen Roman emperors. Do you see anything significant to his resume and the fact that he mentioned Jesus Christ in his writings?
Wow...shocker of a post. You just multi-quoted without any input from your side. So much for a 1st post...
I'll just say this; the entries about Jesus Christ are all written by men who lived and went through their careers as historians decades after Christ died. They don't give firsthand accounts. And the entries themselves supposedly confirming Christ's execution? How do you confirm something you did not see with your own eyes? Worse and most damning of all is how the writings themselves suddenly change style when talking about Christ specifically. Not his followers; the man himself. This is mostly conjecture, unfortunately, but I'll just say that all this plus the convenience of the supposed resurrection [which was never recorded by any independent sources outside of the bible, by the way] explaining away the lack of a body makes this whole thing REALLY convenient.
And even today
This is a list of modern people who have convinced themselves and others that through divine revelation they have been chosen to be the messiah, saviour, teacher or leader for all humanity. In no particular order… http://listverse.com/2008/06/08/top-10-s...-messiahs/
Quote:There is no doubt that Christians existed, from the early years of the second century certainly, and – as heretical Jews and under diverse names – up to a generation earlier. Belief in a Messiah (a 'Christ' in Greek) was endemic among the Jews after all.
But belief in a celestial Christ does not equate to belief in a flesh-and-blood 'Jesus of Nazareth' – and when the 'heretical' and 'gnostic' views of early Christians are examined 'Jesus of Nazareth' is noticeably absent. And to press the point, even a belief in a 'Jesus of Nazareth' does not make him a reality – it is only the belief that is a reality.
None abashed, Christian apologists compound their suspect 'logic' by recruiting notable pagans as witnesses, writers who were doing their best to faithfully report on a suspect cult. And as ever in the history of Christianity, in the hands of its scribes, forgery augments what the ancient writers actually wrote, the better to bring unbelievers to the One True Faith. http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/josephus-etal.html
Was there a Jesus? Of course there was a Jesus – many!
A Surfeit of Jesuses!
April 16, 2012 at 9:40 am (This post was last modified: April 16, 2012 at 9:40 am by Cyberman.)
Add to which the fact that if you follow the mythology in the order in which it was written and compiled, the picture you get is one of a non-corporeal celestial deity which later acquires a miraculous death/rebirth, then a miraculous life history, then a miraculous birth. The story grew ever more fantastic with the telling, a classic signature of what we would now consider a fairytale. It becomes clear that JC is in fact a humanised god, not a deified human.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
![[Image: mybannerglitter06eee094.gif]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=i118.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fo112%2Fpussinboots_photos%2FBikes%2Fmybannerglitter06eee094.gif)
