Pascal's Wager and the Selfishness of a "Good God"

[NoMoreFaith]

Jesus Life and death fulfilled ancient scriptures that all Historians agree existed before His time,(FACT)

A Fact™ you say! You better hurry up and tell the jewish and islamic peoples of the earth! They didn't get the memo.

Nobody disputes the old testament is... older than the new testament.

What is in dispute is how much historical fact it contains.. because the historical content is not only sketchy, but non-existent most of the time.

that almost all the apostles were martyred for their faith (FACT)

Weird, nobody told the early christians about this. Strange how this becomes "Fact" when it wasn't a "fact" merely in the few decades after their deaths.

Theres a long thread about this. The apostles weren't martyred, hell, we barely even have records how most of them died.

Peter was arrested during the persecution of Christians as part of the scapegoat for the burning of Rome.
Nobody cared he was christian, he could have repented his beliefs and he would still have died.

Even this account is far from "Fact".

You are irresponsible with the usage of the word quite frankly.

Study the writings of the earliest Christians, who were defending Christianity in a pagan world that was largely hostile to their beliefs (sound familiar?).

Have you? When did they die, how did they die, and what were the circumstances of their death?

The Bible is not a historical document, even christian historians have trouble proving that it comes close.

And at what point in each instance, did they have the opportunity to recant in order to save their skin. That's what a martyr is after all, preferring to die than to recant their belief.

[Thor]

Biblical History is no Theory,

"Biblical history" is an oxymoron. There is nothing in any historical or archaeological record to substantiate much of what is written in the Babble. There is no evidence of a flood the covered the entire planet 5,000 years ago. There is no evidence to support the story of Exodus. There is no evidence that Jesus existed. I could go on and on...

you are showing your intelligence level now.

You mean my intelligence level that refuses to accept unbelievable tales as factual unless there is significant supporting evidence?

Science never will explain or figure it out,

And people at one time didn't think science could ever explain what causes the sun to shine, what the stars are made of, what causes earthquakes, what causes disease, etc, etc... Congratulations! Your mindset is on the level of ancient ignoramuses!

as they cant explain any phenomenon

Science "can't explain any phenomenon"? What are you talking about?

, along with medical science. No miracles, medical, etc. will ever be explained.

It does not mean something is a "miracle" just because it can't be explained. Unless, perhaps, your mind is contaminated by religious crap.

NDE will never be explained,

Ummm... it kind of has been explained. Pilots undergoing training have blacked out under high G-forces and reported experiences similar to NDE. This is obviously the work of an oxygen starved brain as neurons fire haphazardly. No god necessary!

and why do they all see the after-life,

What proof do you have that these people "see the after-life"? Like I said, neurons in the brain misfiring can cause all kinds of hallucinations.

[sarah888]

]Science does not explain the world, they hypothosise, they have no facts on anything regarding creation, etc, etc, etc,
they have no explanation on. phenomenon is a FACT. etc etc etc. HISTORY is a Fact. Miracles are a FACT. NDE'S are a Fact,
which science fails to explain because they cant.[b]




[b] Jesus' life and death fulfilled ancient scriptures that all historians agree existed before His time; that almost all the apostles were martyred for their faith; that Christianity spread like wildfire despite horrendous persecution. Study the writings of the earliest Christians, who were defending Christianity in a pagan world that was largely hostile to their beliefs.


Sarah



[/b]

[Thor]

[b]]Science does not explain the world, they hypothosise, they have no facts on anything regarding creation, etc, etc, etc,
they have no explanation on. phenomenon is a FACT. etc etc etc. HISTORY is a Fact. Miracles are a FACT. NDE'S are a Fact,
which science fails to explain because they cant.[b]

I'm going to guess that you were home schooled. Am I right?

[frankiej]

[Nine]

I may have to convert. I think god made these kinds of people to amuse me. There is no other explanation!

[NoMoreFaith]

Explain, show me ONE phenomenon that has been discovered
by science that was theory.?

You mean like how the sun comes up in the sky and wasn't pushed there by a giant dung beetle? Things like that?

Every scientific explanation has cut away the things previously explained as "goddidit". Almost every single one.

Or do you mean something more mundane?

Ball Lightning? Science got it
Water running up hill? Science got it
Water turning to blood? yeah, we figured that out too
Corpse Candles? blah blah

Your turn; name some Miracles that are undisputed scientific fact. I.e. with evidence to prove the cause of that "miracle" as supernatural

Prove it, why cant NDE's, Medical miracles, etc. etc. etc be explained by your scientist. Again the I dont know theory applies.

Let me state it again. Why do you think that NDE's align with the individuals experiences rather than allow for new information they could not have known.
Instead NDE's commonly state information shown to be false in reality.

Currently unexplained (But several likely theories btw more likely than the supernatural) does not equal "God".

My assertions come from history and faith, they are not assertions, but beliefs and facts.

Belief is assertion of reality without evidence, and therefore cannot be fact, merely belief.

You clearly have not read any history, all you've done, is read the bible and asserted it is historically correct.
Why don't you try writing a history book based on events that happened in the 1800's, based purely on things that people alive today say.
How accurate do you think it'll be.

Why would a Jew or musilum see the afterlife, why would anyone who goes through this experience see anything else but that specific occurance. ???WHY. I know .. YOU DONT KNOW.!

Why do they see, their OWN afterlife. Basically, your argument must be, that all religions are true, because their NDE's confirm what they already culturally predisposed towards.

If you must know, hallucination is a common feature when the mind tries to draw on experiences that do not exist and tries to fill the gaps.
How much experience of dying do you have?
Even more commonly is the presence of hallucination while the brain is oxygen starved.. like... when you are dying. Funny that.

science does not speak regarding all of history, only explains theory and hypothosis regardless of any topic.

I agree. However, nobody said this.
It should also be noted that even Christian historians cannot prove the historical basis of the bible.

Also, science can speak regarding history to a certain extent when historical events are said to affect the whole planet in a noticeable way.

Wheres that flood btw..............

All science does, is try to explain the world. All you want to do is deny explanation to preserve a need for magic in your life.

yep. that is real nice.

Doesn't change the facts thou. You actively don't WANT explanations. What you want to do, is assert your explanation for something without evidence.
You want to call something that is unexplained as evidence for your cause. Can you not see a basic problem with this?

Its not a matter of being nice, the matter is that you have no filter for the imaginary. You accept what you have been told without any critical thinking whatsoever, and then you have the audacity to claim what you've been told is a FACT™.
That is truly offensive to anyone seeking a truthful answer in this world.

Finally. Learn how to use forum tags.. please... bold isn't helping. There are some great guides to BBCode (thats what you use for bold which you've worked out). Now could you please learn to use the [ quote ] (spaces intentional) tags. It would be very helpful, cheers.

[DeistPaladin]

Blaise Pascal vs. Homer Simpson


Pascal:

Let us weigh the gain and the loss in wagering that God is. Let us estimate these two chances. If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing. Wager, then, without hesitation that He is.

Simpson:

What if we're worshiping the wrong god and every time we go to church we're just making him madder and madder?

Advantage: Homer Simpson

[robsenelstun]

Tell him to Skype me... 'crusty7208' and he can try to convert me...I relish any opportunity I have to debate theists...admittedly not best friends, that seems messy...but I don't mind offering him my soul for saving.

[LastPoet]

Tell him to Skype me... 'crusty7208' and he can try to convert me...I relish any opportunity I have to debate theists...admittedly not best friends, that seems messy...but I don't mind offering him my soul for saving.

You are a glutton for punishment from my POV. It gets old after a while.