There may not be a god...

[Paul the Human]

The "atheist position" is simply "I do not believe that claims of the existence of god(s) are true". There is no right or wrong about such a position. It is simply a declaration of the lack of belief, not a claim that no god(s) exist.

Personally, I have never encountered a reason to reconsider that stance, as no one making the claim that a god exists has successfully presented one. Not one.

[Napoléon]

Haha, I've been on some spectacular atheists forums. There was one Facebook page, "Pray For an Atheist", which was pretty much taken over by the atheist members. Anyway, the minister/pastor who run the page ended up having to shut it down. It wasn't because of the largely atheist membership, however. No, he was exposed, for well, exposing himself to one of the female atheists, via pm.

It was a shame really because that page was awesome.

In terms of your position gringo, it's one I have trouble understanding the reasoning for. You said yourself it basically boils down to what you 'hope' for. IMO it's like me saying I want to hope that fairies are true, so I'll label myself as agnostic towards fairies. Sure you can't disprove them, but what is the reason to take them seriously. What is it that differentiates god and fairies in your eyes? To me they are both mythical beings.

Perhaps another thread for another time, but I am interested in hearing what you have to say on it

[Gambit]

The "atheist position" is simply "I do not believe that claims of the existence of god(s) are true". There is no right or wrong about such a position. It is simply a declaration of the lack of belief, not a claim that no god(s) exist.

Personally, I have never encountered a reason to reconsider that stance, as no one making the claim that a god exists has successfully presented one. Not one.

Paul, while that may be technically true, it is not how many atheists present their arguments. They not only say they don't believe in god(s), they positively state that none exist. Isn't that why there's an atheist scale? As an afterthought, does anyone know if there is a word, other than atheist, which describes someone who argues that god positively does not exist, rather than just believing that god does not exist?

[Paul the Human]

Gnostic Atheist.

In my opinion, "Gnostic" anything is bullshit, but some people claim gnosticism about such things... In both directions.

[Napoléon]

As an afterthought, does anyone know if there is a word, other than atheist, which describes someone who argues that god positively does not exist, rather than just believing that god does not exist?

You say other than, as though that is what atheism actually means

[Norfolk And Chance]

As an afterthought, does anyone know if there is a word, other than atheist, which describes someone who argues that god positively does not exist, rather than just believing that god does not exist?

I dunno but I hope they find a word soon, then I'll know what to call myself.

[Gambit]

Haha, I've been on some spectacular atheists forums. There was one Facebook page, "Pray For an Atheist", which was pretty much taken over by the atheist members. Anyway, the minister/pastor who run the page ended up having to shut it down. It wasn't because of the largely atheist membership, however. No, he was exposed, for well, exposing himself to one of the female atheists, via pm.

It was a shame really because that page was awesome.

In terms of your position gringo, it's one I have trouble understanding the reasoning for. You said yourself it basically boils down to what you 'hope' for. IMO it's like me saying I want to hope that fairies are true, so I'll label myself as agnostic towards fairies. Sure you can't disprove them, but what is the reason to take them seriously. What is it that differentiates god and fairies in your eyes? To me they are both mythical beings.

Perhaps another thread for another time, but I am interested in hearing what you have to say on it

No, that's a reasonable question to ask. I've had experiences in my life which lead me to believe there is something more than what science can explain. Now, I'm going to basically give away the ever present battle which goes on inside my head here by presenting logical explanations for those experiences. Some can be argued away with coincidence. For instance, the time when I felt my friends and I should not take a certain route, to the point where I went into a panic over it, and 5 minutes later there was a paramilitary shooting incident in which 3 people were killed, right were we would have been had we taken that route. Then there was the time when I was on a bus, seen a girl I had worked with years before, then thought to myself it can't be her, she killed herself. I found out the next day that she had committed suicide the day I had seen her. Again, I can offer an explanation for that, which is completely logical and not uncommon. The events that I believe happened on the day of the girl's suicide didn't actually take place. The day after, when I was told of her suicide, I somehow convinced myself that I had a vision the previous day. As adults we often do this when sharing childhood memories as though we were there, when in fact we had only been told about a particular event.

However, no matter how much I rationalize these events, I still cannot consider myself an atheist, because I still believe there is something. I'd even go as far as to say that I believe in a creator, although, I have no idea as to the nature or intention of such a being. I know, I'm not offering any proof of anything, but that is pretty much where I stand on the matter of god. To be honest, I'm not even here to try to convince anyone of anything. I'm here to listen to and learn from people who I feel I have common ground with; both atheist and theist alike.

[Napoléon]

However, no matter how much I rationalize these events, I still cannot consider myself an atheist, because I still believe there is something. I'd even go as far as to say that I believe in a creator, although, I have no idea as to the nature or intention of such a being. I know, I'm not offering any proof of anything, but that is pretty much where I stand on the matter of god. To be honest, I'm not even here to try to convince anyone of anything. I'm here to listen to and learn from people who I feel I have common ground with; both atheist and theist alike.

I don't see where the link is between some exceptional coincidences and intelligent design? Where is the reasoning in that?

To me it's something you have to face up to. If you can't present any rational reasons to believe in something, why believe it? Just because it feels good, or it feels right? That might be good enough for some people but it's not good enough for me. I want to be honest with myself about what I do and do not believe.

Even IF these events you were talking about are, lets say, 'supernatural'. Why does that mean some kind of god did it?

[Gambit]

However, no matter how much I rationalize these events, I still cannot consider myself an atheist, because I still believe there is something. I'd even go as far as to say that I believe in a creator, although, I have no idea as to the nature or intention of such a being. I know, I'm not offering any proof of anything, but that is pretty much where I stand on the matter of god. To be honest, I'm not even here to try to convince anyone of anything. I'm here to listen to and learn from people who I feel I have common ground with; both atheist and theist alike.

I don't see where the link is between some exceptional coincidences and intelligent design? Where is the reasoning in that?

To me it's something you have to face up to. If you can't present any rational reasons to believe in something, why believe it? Just because it feels good, or it feels right? That might be good enough for some people but it's not good enough for me. I want to be honest with myself about what I do and do not believe.

Even IF these events you were talking about are, lets say, 'supernatural'. Why does that mean some kind of god did it?

Well, I'm not happy to just believe it because it feels good. I hold more faith in science proving me wrong than my feelings and beliefs ever being proven correct. I believe that this universe was created with intention, which would suggest to me that a god exists, in the sense of a being or energy that kicked the whole thing off. Now, I'm not talking about the kind of god that takes any active part in the social or moral dealings of humans, but one that is driven by pure intention to create, reproduce and evolve energy. I believe that there is something that ties everything in the universe together, and supernatural experiences may be a result of that link. To me, if that were true, then the energy itself is worthy of being called god. I don't ignore science in the face of my wild fancies, but I'm never going to stop believing in the possibilities.

[Napoléon]

I believe that this universe was created with intention

This is exactly why I can't understand why you hold such a position. How can you determine the intention of the universe. Or whether it was "created" with intention. It's something you simply CANNOT prove and I have not seen any evidence whatsoever to suggest anything like it. It's the interpretation of the human mind which gives things purpose.

Unless I'm shown otherwise then taking a leap of faith that the universe was created with intention is irrational.