27th of May protest of GM research

[Cinjin]

I gotta say .. I don't understand any of their situation.

Why don't the local cops protect the local crops? Why don't they hire some security and put up some cameras? When someone destroys private property in this country, they get arrested and fined and/or jailed. Do you people not have adequate laws over there? We have many publicly funded research projects as well - it doesn't mean that anyone in the public has the right to come in and destroy things they don't understand or comprehend. Ever heard of barbed wire fencing? Some guard dogs? Law enforcement?

What I'm saying here is that I don't understand why they're having problems protecting something from a group of radicals. Someone please explain to me whats going on over there on that apparently lawless continent of yours.



?????

[Ziploc Surprise]

The "local crops" are inferior in every way (that's why nobody grows them). Vae victis. Large ag conglos momonpolize the "local" seed supply as well. They don't care if it's gm or not, it's all green. If there were money in sand-spurs there would be company trying to gain/maintain exclusivity in that market.

Inferior in every way?
I guess you never tasted our local crops. This is why they are more famous in Turkey than any imported (non-GM of course) crop.
The imported crops have longer life-shelves, true, but they really cannot cope with the taste of our local, organic crops.

In case you haven't noticed they are a lot of people on this planet. That's a lot of mouths to feed and a lot of pesticides to use. I'm sure those people would prefer to have enough food instead of not enough food (but the little bit of food they get tastes good). Luxury foods will always have a market. Let's not tell the millions of people in the world who have difficulty getting enough food that they must eat cake.

[The Grand Nudger]

Study after study has shown that we are incapable of distinguishing the "luxury" veggies from their Walmart counterparts btw. The differences we assign to "taste" are a combination of post production handling and logistics. Has nothing to do with whether it's local, organic, or grown on the fucking moon.

You know what really kills me btw, where does the "local organic variety" crowd think hybrid ops source the traits from in the first place? Nobodies just poofing this shit into existence. I'd like to see a list of what requirments any given cultivar has to meet to be called "local" anyway. More than half of eveything we're likely to eat is native to S and C America ffs.

[kılıç_mehmet]

Inferior in every way?
I guess you never tasted our local crops. This is why they are more famous in Turkey than any imported (non-GM of course) crop.
The imported crops have longer life-shelves, true, but they really cannot cope with the taste of our local, organic crops.

In case you haven't noticed they are a lot of people on this planet. That's a lot of mouths to feed and a lot of pesticides to use. I'm sure those people would prefer to have enough food instead of not enough food (but the little bit of food they get tastes good). Luxury foods will always have a market. Let's not tell the millions of people in the world who have difficulty getting enough food that they must eat cake.

They can feed themselves, if they please.
I rather have our own piece of food from our own piece of earth, rather than the food from some other place, for which we have to buy seeds each and every year from the same manufacturer. I'm not talking about luxury food. This "luxury food", as you call it is available to everyone that visits a Turkish Bazaar. And it's very cheap, if you can haggle the price down, you can get it for better prices at the local super or hypermarket, as you're buying it directly from the producer, not the middleman.
But if GM seeds are popularized in Turkey, I'm pretty sure that this great tradition of a bazaar will eventually wane, as super or hypermarkets need products that have longer shelf lives and better durability, while forgoing the taste. GM food will probably see the end of the direct relationship between the producer and consumer, and put things into the hands of the middlemen, with them having the greatest profits.
The millions of others?
I belive that not a single person on this world is dying due to the lack of food, like a famine. They die due to the lack of buying power.

Study after study has shown that we are incapable of distinguishing the "luxury" veggies from their Walmart counterparts btw.

You aren't, of course. I surely am able to distinguish a "luxury" tomato as you call it, for me a usual commodity at the weekly bazaar, from it's counterparts in the local Migros(a super/hypermarket chain in Turkey).

The differences we assign to "taste" are a combination of post production handling and logistics. Has nothing to do with whether it's local, organic, or grown on the fucking moon.

Oh, sure. And this is why we rather go and do our weekly shopping at the bazaar to buy vegetables, instead of going to the supermarket just a few blocks ahead. There, we can actually go between different producers, looking for the best prices for the best taste. And you can tell me that there really is no difference of taste between this tomato, and that tomato.
Sure. This is why certain places in my country are renown for a specific vegetable, where it's grown most and produces the best of best tastes.

You know what really kills me btw, where does the "local organic variety" crowd think hybrid ops source the traits from in the first place?

Not from a laboratory.
That's for sure.

LOL, okay Mehm, whatever you say. I'm sure turkish veggies are superior to others, just like everything else in Turkey.

Well, just moving beyond the damn vegetables, I don't think that they feed you any "real meat" in wherever you live either.
Most of the farm animals in large slaughterhouses are not fit for slaughter. So they feed them GM grains, like maize and etc. I wonder how their taste can really cope with the animals of a local producer from here, who lets his herds graze on the open.

And fish? Caught fish taste obviously much better than "grown" fish.
I don't know how knowledgable you're about fish, but I've eaten enough of every variety native to our seas to know about it.

[NoMoreFaith]

I'm not a foodie, so I'm probably one of those who can't tell the difference between one tomato and another, however it still seems to be one of the worst snobbery of the first world.

What exactly, do people think scientists are trying to achieve with GM crops. Greater yield, nutrition is the main goal, and in an ever populated world, I simply do not see how this is a bad thing.

What I do not like, is the concept of patenting the crop, which is necessary due to the massive cost (apparently not the case in the threads example btw). There are court cases where companies have sued farmers for harvesting a crop that has grown via cross-pollination.. which makes me a little angry.

Is it so bad to sacrifice a little flavour in exchange for crops that will hopefully benefit all of mankind eventually. Its not as if the market for unaltered food will go away from those suffering "first world problems" continue to wish to have "organic" unaltered vegetables.

[Reforged]

Anyone else think we should show up on mass at the protest on 27th May and protect the plants?

Very much so.

---

This research, done properly, could feed millions without sacrificing anything yet those stuck-up, first world problem child ass-clowns have the gall to get rightious about it because "its not natural".
Try asking one of the countless starving individuals round the globe if they give a single solitary fuck about whether its natural or not, the weak and silent look of near-death desperation will be your answer.

[kılıç_mehmet]

I'm not a foodie, so I'm probably one of those who can't tell the difference between one tomato and another, however it still seems to be one of the worst snobbery of the first world.

What exactly, do people think scientists are trying to achieve with GM crops. Greater yield, nutrition is the main goal, and in an ever populated world, I simply do not see how this is a bad thing.

What I do not like, is the concept of patenting the crop, which is necessary due to the massive cost (apparently not the case in the threads example btw). There are court cases where companies have sued farmers for harvesting a crop that has grown via cross-pollination.. which makes me a little angry.

Is it so bad to sacrifice a little flavour in exchange for crops that will hopefully benefit all of mankind eventually. Its not as if the market for unaltered food will go away from those suffering "first world problems" continue to wish to have "organic" unaltered vegetables.

You really don't need to be a "foodie", whatever that is supposed to be, to know the difference between a non-gm, organic tomato and a gm tomato, that is grown with synthetic fertilizers. Synthetic fertilizers, well...Are useful to a point, however, gm foodstuff is a direct manipulation towards the natural way of things, all the while claiming plants as fucking intellectual property rights of a person or a company.
Just as I cannot produce renault cars in my country without the consent of renault, I cannot produce the seeds I need to grow food without the consent of the ones who own the IPR to the damn foodstuff.

You guys are so keen to protest DRM and oppose anti-piracy movements(just as I do), but you keep defending these people who do not want to solve world hunger, but to keep us under their shackles by threatening us with hunger, as they will have the access to the seeds themselves once they made other countries and peoples dependent on them.
Seeds, according to these GM guys, should only be produced by them, and they look at this matter in the most practical way possible. Introduce seeds that produce crops with qualities like longer shelf lives and higher yield, with introducing genes into them that render the next generation of seeds infertile.
And yes, it is bad to cause people to be dependent on seeds, all the while claiming that this is the solution to the world hunger problems.
No, this is not the solution to any world hunger problems.
No one on this earth is hungry because there is no food to get, people are hungry because they cannot pay for the food. I'm hungry, so I go to the shoppe and buy food to eat. Or I go to an Imbiß or restaurant to eat, but what if I had no money at all? I'd starve to death. Besides, I'm not sure how this will render foodstuff to be less expensive either.

Try asking one of the countless starving individuals round the globe if they give a single solitary fuck about whether its natural or not, the weak and silent look of near-death desperation will be your answer.

Give that person a hundred dollars, and see for yourself. If there is no extraordinary condition like a famine, people that die from starvation generally do so due to low economic buying power.
Or do you really think that crops do not grow in the poor areas of the world? For example, the republic of Congo, a large landmass, and can very well, produce the primary foodstuffs like rice, millet, maize and etc.
But they can't. It's not because due to lower yields, it's because they cannot afford any money they have to invest in the growth of crops, as to sell them to someone in the future.

And what do you think will happen in the future? I can tell you what I think. I see this as a new age for serfdom. For example, the people of Congo, not able to produce things due to the lack of help from their government, will open their arms to the foreign investors who will buy off their lands, start growing their own crops, and any local growers who earn anything will not be able to compete with the newcomers, all the while earning profits from it: sure, they might take in a few workers, and increase the agricultural output of the country on paper, but how will this affect the buying power of the people? It won't. The GM you see as the savior of starving people, is actually nothing more than the opposite of it.
It seeks to enslave people.

[NoMoreFaith]

You really don't need to be a "foodie", whatever that is supposed to be, to know the difference between a non-gm, organic tomato and a gm tomato, that is grown with synthetic fertilizers.

Foodie is a colloquial term. It is an aficionado of food and drink, whom is able to discern difference in quality to minute detail. Most of us think a tomato tastes tomato-ey and leaves it at that.

Just as I cannot produce renault cars in my country without the consent of renault, I cannot produce the seeds I need to grow food without the consent of the ones who own the IPR to the damn foodstuff.

That's the bit that makes me angry. I agree completely. I explicitly said it makes me angry.

The crops in question that are to be "burnt" in protest, are government funded according to the open letter, not private.

Which makes the rant over DRM etc somewhat meaningless in this instance.

No one on this earth is hungry because there is no food to get, people are hungry because they cannot pay for the food. I'm hungry, so I go to the shoppe and buy food to eat.

You're capable with economics.

What happens when you increase the supply and reduce wastage?

[Tiberius]

@NoMoreFaith: From their video and the facts on their website, it seems to be the case that whatever advances they make will be released into the public domain, so that any company can start manufacturing these seeds. That includes organisations dedicated to furthering agriculture in the 3rd world.

[NoMoreFaith]

Precisely, I happen to agree with Kilic in terms of the private ownership of GM improvements, this is definitely not the case here which weakens the "Flour power" (see what I did there!) argument on economic terms.