French and Greek elections

[Anomalocaris]

Problem with Greece seems to be that there is inventerate belief amongst wide segments of the society that any solution involving any sacrafice on their part is essentially a redistribution of wealth from those who are innocent of Greece's current difficulties - such as themselves, to those who were guilty - whoever those are.

The problem with France seems to be a perception that Sarkosy's program constitutes an overly hasty breach of the social contract between French middle class and the social order of the 5th republic.

[downbeatplumb]

The problem with greece was that only a few people actually paid their taxes.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/finan...asion.html

[Anomalocaris]

The problem with greece was that only a few people actually paid their taxes.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/finan...asion.html

Yes, tax dodging in those counties is a tradition made so respectable by the lengh of its practice that one is regarded as a sort of antisocial pervert if one were to actually pay one's tax.

[5thHorseman]

How could they write off Greece, the cradle of European civilisation, the birthplace of democracy?
They have to keep it going.

No they dont, dont be so daft. It's a country like any other. They should just drop out the euro and default like Iceland(default) did. Worked well for them,


The biggest problem in the euro is multiple economies in 1 currency, it's total bs, it'd work if they had 1 joint economy, but they dont, so everything in greece costs so much because Germany is doing ok whilst theyre sinking like titanic after a romantic date with an iceberg. They have no money, and the euro, because of Germany, is expensive to trade with, so they are getting no benefit to being in it. The ridiculously terrible austerity plan that isnt working and is driving not only the economy down, and lowering the effectiveness of the cuts whilst massively increasing debt, and unemployment goes continuously up, a vicious circle if ever there was one. Fuck that, they should get out and default, then good luck to them. The Euro: 1 big fuck up from the start.

Still their own fault, tax dodging baklava lovers.
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/03...s-iceland/

[downbeatplumb]

In the seventies greece was always in trouble, traditionally it would get out of it by de-valueing the currency and being a really cheap holiday destination. Now they are in the euro they cant do this.

[Anomalocaris]

The problem is the only countries to really benefit from the Euro are northern European industrial economies that were very efficient to begin with. By joining the Euro, they lock in their currencies at a artificially low level, sort of like what China is accused of doing. So they export the hell out of everyone else and their currencies don't appreciate. Everyone else locked their currencies at ar artificially high level, thus their own real growth is enemic and can't be fixed by currency adjustment. But they create the pretense of better times all around by borrowing.

Now the Germans whine and bitch about having to bail everyone else out. But the problem is the only reason why everyone comes to Germany for bailout is because Germany has everyone else's money, thanks to the locked currency.

Did I miss anything?

[5thHorseman]

The other problem with German whinging is that it was their banks that helped fuel the fuck up

What happened to Spain was a housing bubble — fueled, to an important degree, by lending from German banks — that burst, taking the economy down with it. Now the country has 23.6 percent unemployment, 50.5 percent among the young.

[Neo-Scholastic]

On the other side of the pond, I doubt Texas and other 'responsible' states will take kindly to bailing out California, Illinois, and New York when their day of reckoning comes.

[Anomalocaris]

On the other side of the pond, I doubt Texas and other 'responsible' states will take kindly to bailing out California, Illinois, and New York when their day of reckoning comes.

Most of your "responsible" states are net recipients of federal tax dollars, and those dollars came from states that, under the federal taxation system, pay much more tax to the federal government than receive in return.

Your so called "repsonsible" states have been recipients of hands out from Califnornia, Illinois and New York through the Federal taxation system for decades, and biting the hands that feed them for decades.

[Neo-Scholastic]

Most of your "responsible" states are net recipients of federal tax dollars...

Perhaps, but each state must work with what is available to them and each knew what to expect. In particular, Illinois has consistently voted for over-generous pension plans while avoiding making any plans to pay for them.