Posts: 67283
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: What stops you from sinning in heaven?
May 11, 2012 at 12:32 pm
(This post was last modified: May 11, 2012 at 12:34 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
What makes this "freewill" bullshit so important here on earth, and then completely irrelevant once one crosses those pearly gates? IOW, why is freewill such a convenient excuse here in this world, but completely abandoned in the next?
On Earth- God, please do something- "I can't, free will"
In heaven-God, can I do something? "Nope, no free will here"
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 13901
Threads: 263
Joined: January 11, 2009
Reputation:
82
RE: What stops you from sinning in heaven?
May 11, 2012 at 12:51 pm
(This post was last modified: May 11, 2012 at 12:51 pm by downbeatplumb.)
(May 10, 2012 at 11:21 pm)Drich Wrote: Short answer is no.
I'm assuming of course that no one in heaven will ever sin which is what I think most Christians think)
The "Heavenly" experience is divided into two distinct time periods pre and post millennial reign. Pre millennial is where even boarder line Christians live under Christ. At the end of this reign Satan will be loosed again to harvest those find themselves discontented living under the reign or rule of Christ. After this final rebellion and the final judgement those left will live in the expressed will of God.
Rev 20
Ok now tell us where the loos are?
You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.
Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.
Posts: 12512
Threads: 202
Joined: January 3, 2010
Reputation:
107
RE: What stops you from sinning in heaven?
May 12, 2012 at 7:04 am
And are there any cookies  to go with the coffee?? ![[Image: garfield-coffee.jpg]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=1.bp.blogspot.com%2F_aw_uK9XcPH8%2FTPqk9NsNENI%2FAAAAAAAADtE%2FwPLUBUDIz7M%2Fs1600%2Fgarfield-coffee.jpg)
"The Universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements: energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest." G'Kar-B5
Posts: 193
Threads: 2
Joined: May 10, 2012
Reputation:
3
RE: What stops you from sinning in heaven?
May 12, 2012 at 2:20 pm
People in Heaven are 'incapable' of sinning the way God is 'incapable' of sinning.
Heaven, partaking of God's divine nature, is something which is only possible if you are perfect. A perfect person doesn't commit any evil--if they committed evil, they wouldn't be perfect after all, and they wouldn't have been in Heaven.
Its sort of the flip question of "can someone in Hell repent?" Hell is the absence of any good, so any genuine feelings of remorse for sin and the seed of goodness which is allowed to bring that repentence, isn't compatible with hell.
Christians suffer in remorse for their sins, and are brought closer to perfection both in this world and in Purgatory.
(Purgatory is held by the majority of Christianity, though not all of it.)
Mary Immaculate, star of the morning
Chosen before the creation began
Chosen to bring for your bridal adorning
Woe to the serpent and rescue to man.
Sinners, we honor your sinless perfection;
Fallen and weak, for your pity we plead;
Grand us the shield of your sovereign protection,
Measure your aid by the depth of our need.
Bend from your throne at the voice of our crying,
Bend to this earth which your footsteps have trod;
Stretch out your arms to us, living and dying,
Mary Immaculate, Mother of God.
Posts: 1123
Threads: 18
Joined: February 15, 2012
Reputation:
27
RE: What stops you from sinning in heaven?
May 12, 2012 at 3:39 pm
(This post was last modified: May 12, 2012 at 3:40 pm by NoMoreFaith.)
(May 12, 2012 at 2:20 pm)Aiza Wrote: People in Heaven are 'incapable' of sinning the way God is 'incapable' of sinning.
As in, anything they do is automatically deemed as just.. even if its genocide, murder etc etc.. woah.. heaven sounds .. nasty.
(May 12, 2012 at 2:20 pm)Aiza Wrote: Heaven, partaking of God's divine nature, is something which is only possible if you are perfect. A perfect person doesn't commit any evil--if they committed evil, they wouldn't be perfect after all, and they wouldn't have been in Heaven.
Heaven must be very empty, and ironically free from most of the Popes and Saints.
If we are talking repentance for those sins, then we must also talk about the loss of free will.
Its blase to say that only perfect people go to heaven, therefore no sin is committed. Humans are not black and white, perfect or completely evil. Its meaningless as a paragraph. If we discuss, that this perfection is attained through true repentence then we must also accept that those in heaven are incapable of change, which ergo, limits and perhaps annihilates free will. Free Will by its very nature requires the ability to change, otherwise actions are completely determined.
The idea of "Good" itself is only useful as a term in view of the concept of free will, that we can choose altruism, maliciousness etc.
(May 12, 2012 at 2:20 pm)Aiza Wrote: Its sort of the flip question of "can someone in Hell repent?" Hell is the absence of any good, so any genuine feelings of remorse for sin and the seed of goodness which is allowed to bring that repentence, isn't compatible with hell.
Since part of the "reasons to go to hell" involve non-belief, one would consider that one would give repentence a pretty good go.
Unless you are basically saying, that non-belief in God, means you are completely evil in every aspect, which is non-compatible with .. the real world.
This is a peculiarly black and white way to think of things, all the evil you can eat, as long as you follow up feeling genuine remorse, and you're "PERFECT" for eternity.
A person who dedicates their life to making life good for their fellow man, doesn't believe in God. Sent to hell with no opportunity for remorse for that simple lack of belief.
How human, and malicious this God becomes.
(May 12, 2012 at 2:20 pm)Aiza Wrote: Christians suffer in remorse for their sins, and are brought closer to perfection both in this world and in Purgatory.
Well, you are catholic, so inventing new worlds is hardly new, except when you have to say "whoops, never existed anyway". What happened to Limbo anyway?
Basically, your concept of heaven becomes this torturous existence, where you do not CONFORM to God's standards, and therefore are sent to purgatory until your freewill is crushed (remember, perfection is incompatible with free will).
(May 12, 2012 at 2:20 pm)Aiza Wrote: (Purgatory is held by the majority of Christianity, though not all of it.)
Thankfully, its a nasty piece of thinking, which is all the more astounding that it is plucked from the air, with hardly reference in the bible itself.
You'd think something like that would be worth mentioning.....
Clearly 12th century catholics decided the bible hadn't plagiarised enough from Zoroastrianism and others.
Self-authenticating private evidence is useless, because it is indistinguishable from the illusion of it. ― Kel, Kelosophy Blog
If you’re going to watch tele, you should watch Scooby Doo. That show was so cool because every time there’s a church with a ghoul, or a ghost in a school. They looked beneath the mask and what was inside?
The f**king janitor or the dude who runs the waterslide. Throughout history every mystery. Ever solved has turned out to be. Not Magic. ― Tim Minchin, Storm
Posts: 69247
Threads: 3759
Joined: August 2, 2009
Reputation:
259
RE: What stops you from sinning in heaven?
May 12, 2012 at 3:47 pm
Before the whining begins from the ignorant who have no concept of how much of their silly belief system is derived from Zoroastrianism, let's just put this here to piss them off.
http://www.hinduwebsite.com/zoroastrianism/beliefs.asp
Posts: 3226
Threads: 244
Joined: April 17, 2012
Reputation:
54
RE: What stops you from sinning in heaven?
May 12, 2012 at 4:00 pm
(May 12, 2012 at 3:47 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Before the whining begins from the ignorant who have no concept of how much of their silly belief system is derived from Zoroastrianism, let's just put this here to piss them off.
http://www.hinduwebsite.com/zoroastrianism/beliefs.asp
Oh crap. One more Hell I'm going to have to worry about.
My ignore list
"The lord doesn't work in mysterious ways, but in ways that are indistinguishable from his nonexistence."
-- George Yorgo Veenhuyzen quoted by John W. Loftus in The End of Christianity (p. 103).
Posts: 69247
Threads: 3759
Joined: August 2, 2009
Reputation:
259
RE: What stops you from sinning in heaven?
May 12, 2012 at 5:04 pm
Not one more.... the original.
Posts: 1497
Threads: 29
Joined: February 16, 2010
Reputation:
23
RE: What stops you from sinning in heaven?
May 12, 2012 at 5:12 pm
(May 12, 2012 at 2:20 pm)Aiza Wrote: People in Heaven are 'incapable' of sinning the way God is 'incapable' of sinning.
So "God" can indiscriminately kill people and it's all good. Kind of like how a dictator can do whatever he wants and it's not a crime.
Science flies us to the moon and stars. Religion flies us into buildings.
God allowed 200,000 people to die in an earthquake. So what makes you think he cares about YOUR problems?
Posts: 3226
Threads: 244
Joined: April 17, 2012
Reputation:
54
RE: What stops you from sinning in heaven?
May 12, 2012 at 5:15 pm
(May 12, 2012 at 5:04 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Not one more.... the original.
Hipster Hell then.
My ignore list
"The lord doesn't work in mysterious ways, but in ways that are indistinguishable from his nonexistence."
-- George Yorgo Veenhuyzen quoted by John W. Loftus in The End of Christianity (p. 103).
|
