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ur pretty sharp. I did copy and paste this after hearing a lecture on the miracles of the Qur'an. So giving all credit where credit is due, I of course give Allah the credit and praise for blessing us to learn of this knowledge and miracles He placed in the Qur'an. Then using it as a response to show Non-Muslim debaters, I give myself credit for typing an essay on it, on my Microsoft word program.
They aren't miracles. As many people have pointed out, the same results have been found in the Bible, the Talmud, the Bhagavad-Gita, the book of the Tao, the works of Confucious, etc. It's a silly numbers game, attaching various numbers to letters, switching them around until you find something of interest, hunting for interesting matches, grasping at straws. Nothing that comes out of a book is going to provide any proof of the divine. You can pick up a newspaper and get the same results. You've been conned by a bunch of folks playing a kid's number-code game.
Not only are we aware that numerology is total crap, but previous posts have pointed out the errors in your list. You must have missed those too.
Another poster noted that if the "coincidences" had just simply been there in the text for everyone to read - - scientific proofs, historical events, the lengths of solar system days and rotations, etc., THEN you might have something to discuss. A book that actually predicted the future, in plain language, without need for any hidden messages requiring super-special-secret-spy decoder rings that you got out of a popcorn box - now that might actually be proof.
That's just the point. This book(The Qur'an)does prove these things. Math and science are the same all over the universe. I don't care how u look at it 1+1=2. So no matter what country you're from or what race or religion u are or what language u speak or what corner of the Earth u live on, it's always going to be the same. Now as I said b4 we'll leave the mathematical miracles out because as u say it's a so called "Numbers game". As for linguistics. The chapters of the Qur'an have a rhyming sense to them, in the Arabic language, in a scripture revealed during a time when society was huge on poetry. The Qur'an was sent to mankind in the 7th century but for the rest of mankind's existence on Earth. If u think about how much poetry plays a part in our lives today. Poetry is a huge part of our lifestyles to this day. Things as common as the music we listen to contain poetry which is the same lifestyle that existed over 1400 years b4 the Qur'an's first being revealed. This showing that all of the rest of mankind, however many years we last, the Qur'an will apply to our lifestyles. Now as for the scientific and astronomical aspect. These miracles were placed in a scripture by God Himself in the 7th century when telescopes, microscopes, x-rays, space shuttles, computers and all kinds of other technology that are with us today did not yet exist. So who else could have known these SCIENTIFIC AND ASTRONOMICAL FACTS about our planet and our universe besides God Himself, especially in the 7th century, a time period where humans thought the Earth was flat, and the mountains held up the skies? Another question is how many of these scientific, what I call miracles, do you have to witness b4 u stop saying they are just coincidences? How many coincidences can there be? After all things come together, all the so called "coincidences" prove to be a divine plan, where if u don't believe in iit, there are tons of ways that exist today, to verify the information. I'd also like to know what single human being that lived in the 7th century knew of any other planet in our solar system. It's name, and one of the satellites(moons)that orbits it, knowing it's name too, then mentions them both in a 7th century scripture in the same chapter, named "sand dunes", which our technology today has enabled us to see that this specific planet(Mars)is covered with sand dunes, and was was not theorized and named until the 16th century. Also what human in the 7th century knew of a planet that takes 243 Earth days to revolve around the sun while it rotates on its own axis at a 177 degree angle and names the planet(Venus)in a scripture with Arabic letters in 3 verses, 2 exactly 243 verses apart, and the third in 17:7 which is the exact angle on which the planet rotates? Also what human could've known that the universe was expanding in the 7th century, and has been since, and still is today? So what being besides God Almighty, The Creator of the heavens and the Earth, could have known these scientific facts which again have been verified by our technology today? This is why God challenges any and every human being who thinks they can prevail, to come up with just 1 single chapter like that of the Qur'an. Not only does it rhyme, and give a significant message, but each and every single letter corresponds to every other letter in that chapter as well and also can give scientific and astronomical information. IT CANNOT BE ACCOMPLISHED. The challenge still stands and has never been and never will be defeated. God has said this Himself. He will not allow it to happen, by doing He shows that no human, no matter how intelligent, could ever produce an entire scripture, let alone a single chapter, like that of the Qur'an. This showing it could only be produced by God Almighty Himself.
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(January 10, 2016 at 8:31 pm)drfuzzy Wrote: Sheed1980 Wrote: "The Holy Qur'an, through Muhammad(pbuh)who was an illiterate man.. Everyone who knew him knew he was unlearned and could not read nor write. By doing this God showed that this scripture couldn't be produced by a human being, therefore could only come from God Himself. "
Really? That nasty pedophile snake-oil salesman was illiterate? So, how did someone of his time write a book? - - (wait for it) - like most of the people of his time and place, they would hire a scribe. He probably found some young boy that was studying, so he'd be a cheap fuck at the same time. That's why it took so long to write the books. The young scribes kept growing up. After all, if an angel had written the work, then if would have been too holy for a human to read or touch. Something would have made it obviously different. And he wouldn't need Muhammed at all.
"The word for sea appears 32 times and the word for land appears 13 times. 32+13=45. 32/45=71.11% the exact percentage of water that covers the Earth and 13/45=28.89% the exact percentage of land that covers the Earth." "Ch. 16 is The Honeybee, scientists today have discovered that the bee has 16 chromosomes."
This is exactly the point. If god, who knows everything, would have used the book to explain why we have continents and glaciers and freshwater and salt water, and to explain DNA, the solar system, etc., well then the Qur'an might actually be proof of god's existence. If it was full of knowledge that Muhammed could not possibly have known, there for everyone to read, without having to count words and play silly numerology games, that would be interesting. These "hidden messages" and numerology "miracles" though, they are just crap from con men who take your money and laugh all the way to the bank. Sometimes, they come from people who are so desperate to prove that their holy book is special that they spend years of time coming up with nonsense.
If God wants to prove something to us now, he can just pop down here and hold a press meeting for the news. He doesn't have to hide messages where only a special few can find them.
So God gives us all as His creatures a chance to accept Him as the only Lord of the universe. So are u going to do it now in this life, worship Him alone and be rewarded with whatever u desire in the Hereafter for obeying and pleasing our creator, or will u ignore His guidance and forgiveness, disbelieve in Him, and then accept Him as ur Lord when it's too late to repent and u r doomed to eternal punishment, like none that you have ever seen? I guarantee u will accept Him as ur Lord willingly in this life or willingly in the Hereafter. But my advice is to accept His guidance and mercy while u still have time my friend
(January 10, 2016 at 8:31 pm)drfuzzy Wrote: Sheed1980 Wrote: "The Holy Qur'an, through Muhammad(pbuh)who was an illiterate man.. Everyone who knew him knew he was unlearned and could not read nor write. By doing this God showed that this scripture couldn't be produced by a human being, therefore could only come from God Himself. "
Really? That nasty pedophile snake-oil salesman was illiterate? So, how did someone of his time write a book? - - (wait for it) - like most of the people of his time and place, they would hire a scribe. He probably found some young boy that was studying, so he'd be a cheap fuck at the same time. That's why it took so long to write the books. The young scribes kept growing up. After all, if an angel had written the work, then if would have been too holy for a human to read or touch. Something would have made it obviously different. And he wouldn't need Muhammed at all.
"The word for sea appears 32 times and the word for land appears 13 times. 32+13=45. 32/45=71.11% the exact percentage of water that covers the Earth and 13/45=28.89% the exact percentage of land that covers the Earth." "Ch. 16 is The Honeybee, scientists today have discovered that the bee has 16 chromosomes."
This is exactly the point. If god, who knows everything, would have used the book to explain why we have continents and glaciers and freshwater and salt water, and to explain DNA, the solar system, etc., well then the Qur'an might actually be proof of god's existence. If it was full of knowledge that Muhammed could not possibly have known, there for everyone to read, without having to count words and play silly numerology games, that would be interesting. These "hidden messages" and numerology "miracles" though, they are just crap from con men who take your money and laugh all the way to the bank. Sometimes, they come from people who are so desperate to prove that their holy book is special that they spend years of time coming up with nonsense.
If God wants to prove something to us now, he can just pop down here and hold a press meeting for the news. He doesn't have to hide messages where only a special few can find them.
Quote:So God gives us all as His creatures a chance to accept Him as the only Lord of the universe. So are u going to do it now in this life, worship Him alone and be rewarded with whatever u desire in the Hereafter for obeying and pleasing our creator, or will u ignore His guidance and forgiveness, disbelieve in Him, and then accept Him as ur Lord when it's too late to repent and u r doomed to eternal punishment, like none that you have ever seen? I guarantee u will accept Him as ur Lord willingly in this life or willingly in the Hereafter. But my advice is to accept His guidance and mercy while u still have time my friend
(January 8, 2016 at 4:13 pm)robvalue Wrote: The Quran is proof that people can write things down.
Actually, it's more proof that people who need to be told what to think can read anything that correlates to their own opinions into any old shit.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
January 11, 2016 at 7:41 am (This post was last modified: January 11, 2016 at 7:42 am by WinterHold.)
(January 11, 2016 at 7:29 am)Stimbo Wrote:
(January 8, 2016 at 4:13 pm)robvalue Wrote: The Quran is proof that people can write things down.
Actually, it's more proof that people who need to be told what to think can read anything that correlates to their own opinions into any old shit.
Honestly all people are told what to do.
It's not always words, when you're hungry your body is actually telling you to go eat. As if your pleasure side is demanding; literally, tells you & whispering in your ear to do stuff.
So, we're not so different.
Being a Muslim means to regulate that whispering voice, so it doesn't cause something like the atomic bombs.
A Muslim prefers to take God instead as the commander.
Quote:So God gives us all as His creatures a chance to accept Him as the only Lord of the universe. So are u going to do it now in this life, worship Him alone and be rewarded with whatever u desire in the Hereafter for obeying and pleasing our creator, or will u ignore His guidance and forgiveness, disbelieve in Him, and then accept Him as ur Lord when it's too late to repent and u r doomed to eternal punishment, like none that you have ever seen? I guarantee u will accept Him as ur Lord willingly in this life or willingly in the Hereafter. But my advice is to accept His guidance and mercy while u still have time my friend
Let's play the cliché drinking game!
Take a shot for every cliché you can find on this list. The first one out, wins.
How many can you spot?
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
(January 11, 2016 at 7:29 am)Stimbo Wrote: Actually, it's more proof that people who need to be told what to think can read anything that correlates to their own opinions into any old shit.
Honestly all people are told what to do.
It's not always words, when you're hungry your body is actually telling you to go eat. As if your pleasure side is demanding; literally, tells you & whispering in your ear to do stuff.
So, we're not so different.
Being a Muslim means to regulate that whispering voice, so it doesn't cause something like the atomic bombs.
A Muslim prefers to take God instead as the commander.
I said "told what to think", not what to do. Don't strawman me.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
