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RE: Brewing a miracle.
May 13, 2012 at 4:29 pm
(This post was last modified: May 13, 2012 at 4:32 pm by Ace Otana.)
Quote:WHICH Is Exactly My Point!!! If you can foster the faith of a mustard seed, God will provide for you Exactly the "proof" you need for your own belief. Allowing others to dismiss what was not intended to be "proof" for them.
Yeah, you want me to presuppose the existence of god. That's not going to happen. If I said I believed, I'd be lying. Besides, I have standards. Logic, reason, Occam's razer. Because I actually give a damn in wanting to know what's true.
You know why I stand by such standards? Because they work!
Quote:The doctors treating me seem to have the same reaction. I guess I am in pretty good company.
The whole HIV thing, I don't really believe you. For all I know you're making it up just so you can point at it and say "see! I had HIV and my imaginary friend cured me!", bullshit.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - Carl Sagan
Mankind's intelligence walks hand in hand with it's stupidity.
Being an atheist says nothing about your overall intelligence, it just means you don't believe in god. Atheists can be as bright as any scientist and as stupid as any creationist.
You never really know just how stupid someone is, until you've argued with them.
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RE: Brewing a miracle.
May 13, 2012 at 4:45 pm
(May 13, 2012 at 4:29 pm)Ace Otana Wrote: Quote:Yeah, you want me to presuppose the existence of god. That's not going to happen. If I said I believed, I'd be lying. Besides, I have standards. Logic, reason, Occam's razer. Because I actually give a damn in wanting to know what's true.
You know why I stand by such standards? Because they work!
So does manifest the tinyest measure of Faith in God.
Quote:The doctors treating me seem to have the same reaction. I guess I am in pretty good company.
The whole HIV thing, I don't really believe you. For all I know you're making it up just so you can point at it and say "see! I had HIV and my imaginary friend cured me!", bullshit. Again My life my experience was not for any of you to believe. It was for me to believe. The only reason it was brought up here was because the question was asked, Why doesn't God perform miracle anymore? I wanted to demonstrate the answer first hand with what happened to me. In that He does, but people dismiss them to "the body sometimes does weird things" Or Thank an engineer or thank science, or as you have pointed out in your general disbelief all together. Which of course is all apart of the plan.
The long and short of it is if you want "proof" you are going to have to get your hands dirty and seek it out for yourself. This isn't like science in where some smarter than you, does/is allowed to do your thinking for you, and tells you how something works or does not work. God designed a system that only rewards those who follow a prescribed path, and no one but the person following said path will be able to reap the benefits for following it.
If you want proof, you must Ask Seek and Knock for it as outlined in Luke 11. Otherwise you can always find a shadow of doubt in whatever you want to look at.
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RE: Brewing a miracle.
May 13, 2012 at 4:57 pm
(This post was last modified: May 13, 2012 at 5:35 pm by Ace Otana.)
Quote:The long and short of it is if you want "proof" you are going to have to get your hands dirty and seek it out for yourself.
That's fine, but do remember that it's your beliefs. It's your religion, not mine. There is no burden on me. If I have to believe in order to believe that a god exists then I can't do that. I will stand by well tested principles that do a really good job of keeping out nonsense.
![[Image: science-vs-faith.png]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=zerobs.net%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F02%2Fscience-vs-faith.png)
Quote:God designed a system that only rewards those who follow a prescribed path, and no one but the person following said path will be able to reap the benefits for following it.
That's your belief. Whether it's true or not, whether it has any bearing on reality is another matter altogether.
Quote:If you want proof, you must Ask Seek and Knock for it as outlined in Luke 11. Otherwise you can always find a shadow of doubt in whatever you want to look at.
I don't have to prove or disprove anything. No burden. I've looked into the claims made and have rejected it. If you can't demonstrate that your beliefs are true, then that's the end of it. 
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - Carl Sagan
Mankind's intelligence walks hand in hand with it's stupidity.
Being an atheist says nothing about your overall intelligence, it just means you don't believe in god. Atheists can be as bright as any scientist and as stupid as any creationist.
You never really know just how stupid someone is, until you've argued with them.
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RE: Brewing a miracle.
May 13, 2012 at 4:58 pm
Do you really not see the problem with thy? You're basically saying you have to really really want to find proof in order for god to show it to you. And if you want to bad enough, you can see proof in anything.
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RE: Brewing a miracle.
May 13, 2012 at 9:19 pm
Thanks for sharing that Drich. I don't want to take away from your experience so I won't really go into that, but I think I know why God by default doesn't do anything when people pray.
Mark 16:15-18
And these signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up serpents with their hands; and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover.
So this is the promise made by Biblical Jesus. The problem here is that we're reading from after Mark 16:9 i.e. 'uninspired scripture' according to some people I've asked. So I guess my question is: what's it going to be? Can we really perform miracles on behalf of the Holy Spirit or can we safely dismiss all of it because this isn't actually God-inspired scripture in the eyes of most Christians? The latter would explain the 100% failed attempts I've seen.
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it" ~ Aristotle
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Brewing a miracle.
May 13, 2012 at 9:53 pm
It goes like this:
Quote:ARGUMENT FROM MIRACLES (I)
(1) My aunt had cancer.
(2) The doctors gave her all these horrible treatments.
(3) My aunt prayed to God and now she doesn't have cancer.
(4) Therefore, God exists.
ARGUMENT FROM INCOMPLETE DEVASTATION
(1) A plane crashed killing 143 passengers and crew.
(2) But one child survived with only third-degree burns.
(3) Therefore, God exists.
ARGUMENT FROM CREATIVE INTERPRETATION
(1) God is:
(a) The feeling you have when you look at a newborn baby.
(b) The love of a mother for her child.
© That little still voice in your heart.
(d) Humankind's potential to overcome their difficulties.
(e) How I feel when I look at a sunset.
(f) The taste of ice cream on a hot day.
(2) Therefore, God exists.
And more : http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/GodProof.htm
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RE: Brewing a miracle.
May 13, 2012 at 10:51 pm
(May 13, 2012 at 9:19 pm)FallentoReason Wrote: Thanks for sharing that Drich. I don't want to take away from your experience so I won't really go into that, but I think I know why God by default doesn't do anything when people pray.
Mark 16:15-18
And these signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up serpents with their hands; and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover.
So this is the promise made by Biblical Jesus. The problem here is that we're reading from after Mark 16:9 i.e. 'uninspired scripture' according to some people I've asked. So I guess my question is: what's it going to be? Can we really perform miracles on behalf of the Holy Spirit or can we safely dismiss all of it because this isn't actually God-inspired scripture in the eyes of most Christians? The latter would explain the 100% failed attempts I've seen.
Why does the holy Spirit need any of us to perform miracls?
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RE: Brewing a miracle.
May 13, 2012 at 11:04 pm
(This post was last modified: May 13, 2012 at 11:10 pm by FallentoReason.)
(May 13, 2012 at 10:51 pm)Drich Wrote: (May 13, 2012 at 9:19 pm)FallentoReason Wrote: Thanks for sharing that Drich. I don't want to take away from your experience so I won't really go into that, but I think I know why God by default doesn't do anything when people pray.
Mark 16:15-18
And these signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up serpents with their hands; and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover.
So this is the promise made by Biblical Jesus. The problem here is that we're reading from after Mark 16:9 i.e. 'uninspired scripture' according to some people I've asked. So I guess my question is: what's it going to be? Can we really perform miracles on behalf of the Holy Spirit or can we safely dismiss all of it because this isn't actually God-inspired scripture in the eyes of most Christians? The latter would explain the 100% failed attempts I've seen.
Why does the holy Spirit need any of us to perform miracls?
"If you have been baptised by the Holy Spirit then you have the ability to free anyone of their sickness. Therefore, go out of your way to pray for anyone that needs it so that God can proclaim his glory."
-my church
I dunno, you tell me. I figured this was going to turn into one Christian's word against another...
Either way, what happened to the infallible word of God? Is Mark 16:9 onwards correct or not? EDIT: because if it is then you have the answer to your question. Jesus said so.
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it" ~ Aristotle
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RE: Brewing a miracle.
May 13, 2012 at 11:29 pm
(This post was last modified: May 13, 2012 at 11:30 pm by Drich.)
(May 13, 2012 at 11:04 pm)FallentoReason Wrote: "If you have been baptised by the Holy Spirit then you have the ability to free anyone of their sickness. Therefore, go out of your way to pray for anyone that needs it so that God can proclaim his glory."
-my church No. We are told about the gifts of the Holy Spirit in 1 Cor Chapter 12: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1 Corinthians+12&version=NKJV (Read the whole chapter.) We are told not everyone will have the same spiritual gift.
Quote:I dunno, you tell me. I figured this was going to turn into one Christian's word against another...
What was going to turn into what??? Who was the "other Christian?"
Quote:Either way, what happened to the infallible word of God?
Show me book Chappter and Verse where the Bible Claims to be infalliable.
Quote:Is Mark 16:9 onwards correct or not?
Mark 16:9 Now when He rose early on the first day of the week, He appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom He had cast seven demons.
What does any of this have to do with what we are talking about?
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RE: Brewing a miracle.
May 14, 2012 at 1:58 am
Hmm.. I'm not sure if you're being intentionally obtuse as to avoid the question at hand. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and clarify what I meant.
(May 13, 2012 at 11:29 pm)Drich Wrote: (May 13, 2012 at 11:04 pm)FallentoReason Wrote: "If you have been baptised by the Holy Spirit then you have the ability to free anyone of their sickness. Therefore, go out of your way to pray for anyone that needs it so that God can proclaim his glory."
-my church No. We are told about the gifts of the Holy Spirit in 1 Cor Chapter 12: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1 Corinthians+12&version=NKJV (Read the whole chapter.) We are told not everyone will have the same spiritual gift. We're not talking spiritual gifts at all here. Jesus explicitly says that any believer will be able to perform these feats in order to proclaim the glory of God.
Quote:Quote:I dunno, you tell me. I figured this was going to turn into one Christian's word against another...
What was going to turn into what??? Who was the "other Christian?"
What I have been taught by Christians seems to contradict what you see as the truth. 37 000 denomination phenomena.
Quote:Quote:Either way, what happened to the infallible word of God?
Show me book Chappter and Verse where the Bible Claims to be infalliable.
If it's 'God inspired' then wouldn't you assume it's infallible? Otherwise that's saying something about God.
Quote: Quote:Is Mark 16:9 onwards correct or not?
Mark 16:9 Now when He rose early on the first day of the week, He appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom He had cast seven demons.
What does any of this have to do with what we are talking about?
I said Mark 16:9 onwards. This is the chunk that is known to be added on. It contains the section that says all believers have the ability to heal.
So, once again, what's it going to be? Can miracles really happen or is the book flawed?
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it" ~ Aristotle
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