I don't believe in Ghosts but I have seen one.

[jackman]

Define sentient. If you mean conscious, yes he is sentient. If you mean able to feel, no but by that criteria there are many people that wouldn't be considered sentient (and many more that would only be considered part sentient). Still, the question has been asked. How do you define a person?

i'm trying to determine what would make someone say he's not human. so if his lack of sentience describes why they feel that way, then at least i'd understand where that thought came from. yes, conscience imo does it. to me, the child is a baby, regardless of what is described about his condition.

[Phil]

Define sentient. If you mean conscious, yes he is sentient. If you mean able to feel, no but by that criteria there are many people that wouldn't be considered sentient (and many more that would only be considered part sentient). Still, the question has been asked. How do you define a person?

i'm trying to determine what would make someone say he's not human. so if his lack sentience describes how they feel that way, then at least i'd understand where that thought came from. yes, conscience imo does it. to me, the child is a baby, regardless what is described about his condition.

I really would like to hear how Morshun and Paul define a person. In their zeal to define a person so as to make this baby a non-person, I can assure you they will eliminate quite a few other people from personhood.

[fuckass365]

Define sentient. If you mean conscious, yes he is sentient. If you mean able to feel, no but by that criteria there are many people that wouldn't be considered sentient (and many more that would only be considered part sentient). Still, the question has been asked. How do you define a person?

i'm trying to determine what would make someone say he's not human. so if his lack sentience describes how they feel that way, then at least i'd understand where that thought came from. yes, conscience imo does it. to me, the child is a baby, regardless what is described about his condition.

As both Paul and I have pointed out, he IS a human. There is just no operator. He doesn't know he exists, I don't see how he can. I'm not being mean, it's just the truth. The same goes for anyone who is so severely mentally handicapped that they have almost no brain function. Hence the term, "vegetable".

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i'm trying to determine what would make someone say he's not human. so if his lack sentience describes how they feel that way, then at least i'd understand where that thought came from. yes, conscience imo does it. to me, the child is a baby, regardless what is described about his condition.

I really would like to hear how Morshun and Paul define a person. In their zeal to define a person so as to make this baby a non-person, I can assure you they will eliminate quite a few other people from personhood.

Paul has expressed no further interest in the discussion but I do not mind. Although we are terribly off topic, lol.

[jackman]

they both sort of already said their point, pretty clearly (even mosrhun okaying the email to the fam). i don't agree with it, but i'm sure that isn't keeping either of them from their coffee this morning. lol. i'm more interested in why people say things, than what they said.

[Phil]

i'm trying to determine what would make someone say he's not human. so if his lack sentience describes how they feel that way, then at least i'd understand where that thought came from. yes, conscience imo does it. to me, the child is a baby, regardless what is described about his condition.

As both Paul and I have pointed out, he IS a human. There is just no operator. He doesn't know he exists, I don't see how he can. I'm not being mean, it's just the truth. The same goes for anyone who is so severely mentally handicapped that they have almost no brain function. Hence the term, "vegetable".

Do you understand the word person? How do you define a person? I asked twice and you say he is human. I am asking more, Go back and read my original question if you don't believe me. Nicholas Coke has a functioning brain stem and a forebrain which is how he is still alive after 4 years.

[fuckass365]

As both Paul and I have pointed out, he IS a human. There is just no operator. He doesn't know he exists, I don't see how he can. I'm not being mean, it's just the truth. The same goes for anyone who is so severely mentally handicapped that they have almost no brain function. Hence the term, "vegetable".

Do you understand the word person? How do you define a person? I asked twice and you say he is human. I am asking more, Go back and read my original question if you don't believe me. Nicholas Coke has a functioning brain stem and a forebrain which is how he is still alive after 4 years.

So you're telling me that he can actually think? Clarify his condition please. Also, Jackman I was being sarcastic about the email to the family, I am a dickhead but I would never condone that.

[Phil]

Do you understand the word person? How do you define a person? I asked twice and you say he is human. I am asking more, Go back and read my original question if you don't believe me. Nicholas Coke has a functioning brain stem and a forebrain which is how he is still alive after 4 years.

So you're telling me that he can actually think? Clarify his condition please. Also, Jackman I was being sarcastic about the email to the family, I am a dickhead but I would never condone that.

No I never said anything about thinking. He has a brain stem and that is what keeps him alive. His condition is anencephaly. I made the same mistake twice by typing forebrain without the word missing first. Anencephaly is a genetic problem where the child is born with a missing forebrain and a functioning brain stem. Usually the brain they do have is exposed since most of the skull and scalp is missing.

[jackman]

oh yeah, i assumed (read: hoped) that was a joke. lol.

[Phil]

Here is a picture of the child.

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One more.

[fuckass365]

So you're telling me that he can actually think? Clarify his condition please. Also, Jackman I was being sarcastic about the email to the family, I am a dickhead but I would never condone that.

No I never said anything about thinking. He has a brain stem and that is what keeps him alive. His condition is anencephaly. I made the same mistake twice by typing forebrain without the word missing first. Anencephaly is a genetic problem where the child is born with a missing forebrain a functioning brain stem. Usually the brain they do have is exposed since most of the skull and scalp is missing.

My answer would be this, although it's probably not the kindest one. You won't find it at the end of a Disney movie.

"Being" anything in the first place requires cognitive thought and conscious awareness. Otherwise you just are, you're not really experiencing the sensation of "life". He is human in species and deserves all the civil rights of any other human and I would never argue otherwise. However, being a person requires that he is capable of rationalizing his existence, being able to think and reason. In this situation I would say this child is a human, but not a "person".

Let me further add that this is an awful condition and I can only imagine the pain it has caused his parents. I would never tell them that their son is not a person, just out of empathy.