Do you support the legalisation of polyagmy and polyandry

[Mystic]

I don't support it. I also don't support that government should have no role in enforcing guiding principles of humanity.

Here is why. First, I think there should exist jealous selfish type love in a relationship, that a man should want the woman for himself, and vice versa, the woman should want the man for herself. Children should also want their parents to have such type love towards each other. This type of love is foundational for family structure. But aside from that, it's higher type love, that makes the person you are in love more appreciated of themselves and of their partner. I think this a foundational of family, and children should grow up in that type of family.

Another problem is that if polygamy becomes a norm (majority type marriages), a huge amount of people that will be single. If polyandry becomes the norm (majority type marriage), then again, same problem.

And if becomes legislated, it has potential of become popular, in that, it would be an alternative solution to cheating. A person cheats, is caught, then states, it's legislated, why not stay together and invite that person into the "family" structure.

I think generations have a duty to protect future generations by putting red lines. If you want to push those red lines it's going to have to be a struggle.

I'm on the side of the "moral" enforcement here, want to protect the children from thinking we ok with it. If a generation will ever go against the norm we have now, it won't simply be do the fact, we simply allowed it in the name of "freedom". It will have to be something they struggled for and sincerely believed in and convinced the majority.

[Doubting_Thomas]

Morally I cannot see any objection to polygamy amongst concenting adults.

Every version ive read of seems to be sexist and exploitive though. How many places that do/have allowed it, allow one women to have multiple husbands?

And then there are possible psychological problems: the case of that lady in UK who was in some sort of hippy polygamous relationship which led to her having a breakdown a killing her child. Maybe isolated, but something we'd want to understand before legalizing it.

So despite the moral stance, I think it's likely to be problematic. It's one of the few things I'd keep banned if I ruled the world as I think if it were legal the laws would be abused and people exploited. Especially by sexist and religious nuts.

[Violet]

I don't support it. I also don't support that government should have no role in enforcing guiding principles of humanity.

So you think government should have a role in 'enforcing' "guiding principles of humanity"? The fuck does that even mean?

Here is why. First, I think there should exist jealous selfish type love in a relationship, that a man should want the woman for himself, and vice versa, the woman should want the man for herself. Children should also want their parents to have such type love towards each other.

This type of love is foundational for family structure. But aside from that, it's higher type love, that makes the person you are in love more appreciated of themselves and of their partner. I think this a foundational of family, and children should grow up in that type of family.

By 'higher type of love', do you mean 'baser type of love'? Yes... they appreciate each other so much that they have no trust in each other, and they selfishly refuse to acknowledge their significant others' very real feelings. I'd associate jealousy more with the oft-resulting inconsiderate control than anything else.

I'd never wish to be the one to introduce my children to jealousy... especially to the extent of suggesting that it is not only okay: but to be goddamn sought after. That has a significant potential to fuck them up in the head, and an even greater chance to ruin many good things in their lives.

Another problem is that if polygamy becomes a norm (majority type marriages), a huge amount of people that will be single. If polyandry becomes the norm (majority type marriage), then again, same problem.

Why would either of these occur without the other? You're making no sense to me. Either we remove the massive egalitarianism movement from our society and become patriarchy or matriarchy: that simply cannot occur. Single people have an identical chance of finding mates, because just like today: not everyone will have gotten married

And if becomes legislated, it has potential of become popular, in that, it would be an alternative solution to cheating. A person cheats, is caught, then states, it's legislated, why not stay together and invite that person into the "family" structure.

If a person cheats, and is caught... do you really think that all of the other people will always accept that? Everyone is different... there are people who are willing to let shit like that slide to an extent (ie: me), there are people for whom this is a deal-breaker, and there are people who will hook up with the person you 'cheated' with because they really were an awesome person (perhaps while breaking it off with you).

I have no idea what you consider to be 'cheating'... I have a singular rule in my relationships, and that is "Ask permission, or at least give me a heads-up". Cheating, for me... is when the party off fucking someone has deliberately kept this secret from me, has avoided telling me for a significant time after the fact, or as a lighter offense: fucked someone after class without giving me a heads up and telling me when they came home. The simple act of having other sexual/emotional/romantic/economical partners neither offends me, nor irritates me.

I think generations have a duty to protect future generations by putting red lines. If you want to push those red lines it's going to have to be a struggle.

Only if you want to make it so. I'd certainly love to protect future generations from believing shit like jealousy being okay Line ain't red: line is purple.

I'm on the side of the "moral" enforcement here, want to protect the children from thinking we ok with it. If a generation will ever go against the norm we have now, it won't simply be do the fact, we simply allowed it in the name of "freedom". It will have to be something they struggled for and sincerely believed in and convinced the majority.

... Right. Knock yourself out, mate ^_^

[Mystic]

So you think government should have a role in 'enforcing' "guiding principles of humanity"? The fuck does that even mean?

Well, here is the thing. Why is copy right there? It's for the well being of society. There is consequences to society as a whole without copy right.

But people seem to focus on "physical" or "material" well being only. I think spiritual well being of society is also important.

So for example, I don't think prostitution should be allowed.

I think "honour" is important to protect in society.


As for jealousy causing revenge, it's a factor, a motivation, but then their is praise when you overcome jealousy.

It's also praise where your love of the person and respect of his rights, overcomes your jealous feelings.

However, jealousy is not a bad feeling in itself. Well there is two types. There is one type, that wishes bad upon the other person. Then there is the type that you wish you had the good of that person. I think the latter is natural. Sometimes it's a mix of both.

And the type of jealous nature, the want of the partner for yourself, comes out appreciation of who they are. No it's not base all the time.

I'm sorry, you might as well call romantic love base all the time. Sure if you don't know the partner, and had no relationship with them, and you felt jealousy over them simply on their looks or something, that is base. But even that is natural. It simply sparks out of the love we have for ourselves.

Jealousy is a double edge sword. It can be bad, it can be good. In marriage, not having jealous nature type love over your partner, means you care less if they go have sex with another or love another. I'm sorry but that means you don't value the romantic relationship between you as you should.

And kids naturally feel that way over their parents without parents ever telling them they should.

I'd associate jealousy more with the oft-resulting inconsiderate control than anything else.

You got to be kidding me. So if you love your husband/wife, and you don't want him/her having sex with others, you are having inconsiderate control?

Why would either of these occur without the other?

Mob like potential preference of society...it's not necessarily that one will be majority, but that it can become a norm.

For example, it maybe that guys won't marry one woman with a husband. But the same would not be true of woman marrying men with another wife.

Or if society totally looses it , it can be the other way.

It's not that it will definetly happen, but it's possible. It's not necessarily that both would be embraced.

If a person cheats, and is caught... do you really think that all of the other people will always accept that? Everyone is different... there are people who are willing to let shit like that slide to an extent (ie: me), there are people for whom this is a deal-breaker, and there are people who will hook up with the person you 'cheated' with because they really were an awesome person (perhaps while breaking it off with you).

Your missing the point. If it's legal to marry multiple partners, then it can become very hard to keep a monogamous relationship. It's become much easier to cheat.

Society already cheats well enough. It's something we should try to reduce, not make it more easier and more of a norm.

Only if you want to make it so. I'd certainly love to protect future generations from believing shit like jealousy being okay Line ain't red: line is purple.

No, not just me. It takes the majority. But my voice in the many would be to enforce these red lines.

And in fact, personally, I want bigger consequences for cheating in society. Of course not the "stoning" penalty of Islam, but a heavy consequence.

... Right. Knock yourself out, mate ^_^

Generations in the future will see who will win.

[Ryantology]

Consenting adults should be able to enter into any sort of legal marriage situation they desire. No other person or entity has the right to refuse them this.

Bottom line. If you don't like it, don't do it. I wouldn't.

[Mystic]

Consenting adults should be able to enter into any sort of legal marriage situation they desire. No other person or entity has the right to refuse them this.

Just asserting it won't convince me

[Ryantology]

I do not know how I would go about convincing you that you should apply your moral restrictions to yourself and no one else?

[TaraJo]

I have mixed feelings about this.

On one hand, I believe that consenting adults should be able to get into whatever relationship they want and this includes poly-relationships. And I've known a few people who have had successful or semi-successful poly relationships. I've even considered trying out a poly/open relationship myself.

However, what actually happens is far different from that. Usually, it's going to be one man with a harem of wives. None of the wives have any say in this, either. There are still polygamous groups in the US (Look up the FLDS church if you want an example) not to mention it's much more popular in Africa and the Middle East. I'm not really fond of marriages that are essentially just misogynistic slavery.

So, do I think it should be legal? Maybe. It's an interesting thing, the way the law shapes culture. The illegality of polygamy has made plural marriages one of the most taboo things we have, even though historically speaking, plural marriages were probably more common than monogamous marriages. If we were to legalize it, I would still want some kind of assurance that it wouldn't be used to have a barn full of women you get to pick and choose from when you're horny.

I can't help but think there may be other legal issues I haven't thought of, though.

[Mystic]

3 women and 3 men can get married together and raise a family. It picks up as "cool" in high school, the idea of finding 3 men and 3 women to live together and raise a family. Why not? You get to have sex with 3 women, more enticing than one man, and the woman get to have sex with 3 men.

It's more attune with "sexual" desire. It's dishonorable and disgraceful from my point of view.

And here is one problem with allowing dishonorable and disgraceful acts, aside from the fact it's dishonorable. It creates low character, low characters are more likely to commit crimes.

They are more likely to rape. They are more likely to steal and kill.

I'm sorry if I stand against the hedonistic fantasies of 5 men marrying 5 women type thing and you are saying "we're consenting adults, we can do what we want"...

I'm sorry, why should children be not allowed to do what they want, but now that you grow up and are adult, you can do what you want? Do you even have an argument for that?

Adult gives you all freedoms, but children can't do what they like.

The fact is you too like children can lack wisdom. It's up for a wise people (like me kidding) to stop you from your disgraceful fantasies that can spread like wild fire on the precious youth

[Darkstar]

It's more attune with "sexual" desire. It's dishonorable and disgraceful from my point of view.

Yeah, you're probably right.

And here is one problem with allowing dishonorable and disgraceful acts, aside from the fact it's dishonorable. It creates low character, low characters are more likely to commit crimes.

They are more likely to rape. They are more likely to steal and kill.

I'm not sure if that is true. I guess I can't provide statistics for it, but I'm not sure why someone who had three wives would be more likely to rape someone than someone with a single partner.

I'm sorry if I stand against the hedonistic fantasies of 5 men marrying 5 women type thing and you are saying "we're consenting adults, we can do what we want"...

Well, if they realy want to, then they probably will, and just petend it isn't marriage so they can't be accused of any crime. To me, it doesn't really feel as much like marriage, as it would seems that you feelings would be diluted over multiple people in that scenario.

I'm sorry, why should children be not allowed to do what they want, but now that you grow up and are adult, you can do what you want? Do you even have an argument for that?

Adult gives you all freedoms, but children can't do what they like.

Probably the best argument for that would relate to brain development, but that doesn't prove that any given adult is more rerponsible than any given child.

The fact is you too like children can lack wisdom.

And 'children' can have wisdom. I guess it depends on what is considered a 'child' (when I hear it, I tend to think of pre-teens or early teens). What about someone being 18 (voting age where I live)makes them infinitely more responsible than somenone who is 17?

It's up for a wise people (like me kidding) to stop you from your disgraceful fantasies that can spread like wild fire on the precious youth

I have mixed feelings about this statement. On the one hand, people probably used the same reasoning against many things that are perfectly fine, and accepted as such nowadays, but I can also see how these marriages becoming common could be problematic...