Churches taunt the IRS by violating 501-c laws on political activism

[Minimalist]

Baiting them? What the hell is going on?

Someone wake up the IRS for goodness sake, or at least poke them with a stick to make sure they're not all dead.

They're not dead. Just this year they made deep cuts into the things I could deduct as a home business.

The IRS does not write the tax code. Congress does. Badly.

[Brian37]

Both Madison and Jefferson HATED this concept and if any idiot with a fucking brain had read Jefferson's Virginia Religious Freedom ACT which Madison modeled the First Amendment from, they would know how STUPID asking for a tax break is.

BUT at the same time I think both Madison and Jefferson would also say, if you are going to be stupid then when others do it, you cant deny them what you are doing yourself.

The quickest way to shut these fuckers up is to have a Muslim citizen endorse a candidate or hey, an atheist citizen.

The concept of the Constitution because of the First Amendment AND "No religious test" in the oath of office, and " the Barbary Treaty article 11 AND Jefferson's wall was to prevent monopolies of power and ban pecking orders.

[Faith No More]

The quickest way to shut these fuckers up is to have a Muslim citizen endorse a candidate or hey, an atheist citizen.

I'm not so sure about that. Many of the Christians here believe that this is God's country, and therefore Christianity deserves special status. I think if they were outraged by a Muslim endorsing a candidate, and someone called them on their hypocrisy, they would just say that this is a Christian nation. When it comes to freedom of religion in this country, many Christians have no problem being hypocrites.

[Brian37]

The quickest way to shut these fuckers up is to have a Muslim citizen endorse a candidate or hey, an atheist citizen.

I'm not so sure about that. Many of the Christians here believe that this is God's country, and therefore Christianity deserves special status. I think if they were outraged by a Muslim endorsing a candidate, and someone called them on their hypocrisy, they would just say that this is a Christian nation. When it comes to freedom of religion in this country, many Christians have no problem being hypocrites.

When that happens simply ask them which sect of "Christianity". No one on the left is going to agree with the right.

I'd actually like to postulate a change to the Oath of office to show how stupid the superfluous "So help me God" crap is that a politician can do, but is not required to do.

I'd like to see how liberal or republican Christians would like it if the oath of office MANDATED, an oathn only to "Mary" or only to"Southern Baptists" or "Libertarians" or only "Mormons" or only " Scientologists".


I have seen this happen before in court cases. The founders had an idea of neutrality in the form of two choices .

1. You let it all in
2. Or agree to keep the setting neutral

Now the founders did intend everything to be case by case, so there was no absolute for the minority or the majority.

I know the current false meme is that Christians falsely think the founders had a religious pecking order. But if we want as a nation to focus on other things than social club membership and on things we all have in common, such as food, poverty, jobs and education, Rather than accept that bullshit meme, why don't we fight to educate the population as to the importance of equality and pluralism as per stated by "NO RELIGIOUS TEST"?

I know things are the way they are, but they don't have to stay that way.

[Ziploc Surprise]

How in the hell do churches qualify as "charitable organizations"? They're in the BUSINESS of selling religion! If I give money to the Cancer Society, I know my money is being used for cancer research. If I give my money to the Red Cross I know it's being used to help people displaced by disasters. If I give my money to a church.... I have no clue what it's being used for!

Unfortunately there are a lot of so called charities that are set up to give someone (or a group of people) a salary and launder money. Though I am an animal lover the Humane society supposedly is a charity to give Lawyers and lobbiests a job. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTrhQd9GHlE

Then there's the invisible children charity (Kony 2012) lots of bullshit there, outrageous overhead costs.

What is needed is an across the board reform in the accountability of charities. Threaten them with loosing their tax exempt status. This goes for both churches and other charities. I doubt that the tax exempt status for churches could be removed. I think that they really might fall under the definition of a charity. A charity for a fake need (salvation). Believe me don't get me wrong, I know the business end of the deal too. It's sick. But the charitable organization that fills a fake need thing, I don't know how this can be challenged. I do hope the abuses get cut back a lot.

[Angrboda]

He knows such pulpit pleading could endanger his church's tax-exempt status by violating IRS rules for a 501[c](3) charitable organization.

How in the hell do churches qualify as "charitable organizations"? They're in the BUSINESS of selling religion! If I give money to the Cancer Society, I know my money is being used for cancer research. If I give my money to the Red Cross I know it's being used to help people displaced by disasters. If I give my money to a church.... I have no clue what it's being used for!

The 501 ( c) section of the tax code is fairly broad and in particular, 501 ( c) 3 includes both charitable and educational foundations; the primary division being that 501 ( c) 3 organizations are forbidden from engaging in politics (rather narrowly defined as supporting or opposing the election of particular candidates), and that the income of the organization does not go to the penury interest of any individual or group (they can't be run simply to make one or more persons rich). I believe they're also prevented from engaging in certain types of business activities, but I'd have to research that. Organizations like movetoamend.org are also 501 ( c) 3, and I believe the political parties are 501 ( c) 6 organizations. Basically this section of the tax code is meant to encourage the flourishing of organizations that benefit the public interest, and are an incentive designed to encourage behaviors that are, generally, seen as serving a secular good. You might disagree that religion actually serves any good, and I might be inclined to agree with you; however, like free speech, it's probably best to let people make their own choices in the matter of religion, and attempting to remove that protection from religious organizations and not secular organizations (I believe the NCSE is a 501 ( c) 3) is probably not a good direction to go for either the religious or non-religious.

Of course, we as a society are perfectly free to differ with that view via legislation, but we both know the atheists and non-religious simply don't have the votes.

The sad thing about this is, both the government and the IRS are likely going to just turn a blind eye to this activity, for political and practical reasons. But, what can you do. It sucks, but thems the breaks.

(ETA: Would a Unitarian Universalist church be considered secular or religious? If you're not familiar with UU, their churches range from pseudo-religious to almost atheistic; I attended a UU church here, but was later informed that it is the most atheistic UU church in the city. What about semi-spiritual organizations like meditation centers? Or for that matter, what about things like humanist associations whose beliefs, politics and advocacy walks a thin line between secularism and a quasi-religious message? This is another demarcation problem, and I don't mean to invoke the fallacy of the beard, but it is a thorny practical issue. [and if you read up on the IRS website about this section of the tax code, you can get a greater appreciation for how difficult these issues can be, but also how the IRS deals with them in practical terms])

[Darth]

Hey! Why lump libertarianism in with the nutty religions?

and don't say I just answered my own question =P

[Reforged]

Ha, he thinks they won't dare bust him on it because there would be uproar. What he doesn't seem to have taken into account is the IRS genuinely doesn't give a shit, they're going to take a crap on him from such a height the other side of the world will be feeling the tremors.

[Zen Badger]

Ha, he thinks they won't dare bust him on it because there would be uproar. What he doesn't seem to have taken into account is the IRS genuinely doesn't give a shit, they're going to take a crap on him from such a height the other side of the world will be feeling the tremors.

If the IRS doesn't then it will be the final nail in the coffin for the separation of church and state.

Because if they ignore this then it means that the churches will be free to do whatever they like in the political arena.

And the U.S will be on the final approach to theocracy.

[KichigaiNeko]

'Bout time Churches got taxed!! Financial difficulties solved!!