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June 25, 2012 at 9:07 am (This post was last modified: June 25, 2012 at 9:09 am by LastPoet.)
If I read the article right, in that situation, I would probably leave the guy in such a bloody pulp that there was no need for an ambulance, just a coroner. Irrational as it may be, in the heat of the moment, i.e. there is no plan, why should he be prosecuted?
This thread is going on tangents, sometimes never clear. Does this case sets a precedent so that doing justice by own hands is acceptable? No, why should it? But in this case there was no judgement, just a father protecting his child. In the end its the abused child that will suffer more than the guy that was abusing her.
(June 24, 2012 at 9:36 pm)Shell B Wrote: I don't blame you, pad. I think some people fail to grasp the extent of the damage inflicted by raping a child. The sheer pain and fear aside, it will continue to arise for them when they go through puberty, date, get married, have children, etc. It will always affect their personal lives. You literally change a person's life forever with that one act. I would say it is fair to equate it with murder or at least damn close. You could argue it all day, but it does not change the fact that rape is a far more substantial crime than anything other than murder and torture. Well, one could call it torture.
Where the hell do you get off trying to FALSELY accuse people about the affects of rape on a child. NO SANE person thinks rap of a child is "no big deal".
I do not know how many times I have to repeat myself. You keep mixing subjects here.
1. A natural and UNDERSTANDABLE reaction to a horrible crime.
2. HOW long term we as a society treat the accused on ANY crime they are accused of.
I am saying what this dad did was UNDERSTANDABLE , but it should be the exception and not the rule.
Again, when you deal with a species that is capable of lying, and we do it all the time, and you are also dealing with a species capable of being vindictive, A CLIMATE OF FEAR is a bad thing to foster LONG TERM.
QUIT making this about one person and one type of crime. IT SUCKS THAT THIS SHIT HAPPENS AND NO SANE PARENT wants this shit to happen to their kid AND EVERYONE agrees that rape of a child has a harmful affect on them. NO ONE IS ARGUING THAT.
If a society just wants to "get even" then we don't need a system of law and we don't need lawyers to defend the accused. In the civilized west LONG TERM we have gotten away from the barbaric "street justice" of fascist states be they the likes of Stalin or theocracies of Iran.
If you are unwilling to give due process even to the worst in our society, long term that mentality will get to the innocent.
People get put in prison even with our system in place, for stupid shit for minor possession when a fine or treatment will benefit society. I see stories in the news all the time where people spend time in prison for ALL SORTS of crimes they did not commit.
THE POINT IS that since our system is not perfect, the last thing we should be basing our reactions on are our emotions, NO MATTER WHAT THE CHARGE. The emotions, WHILE UNDERSTANDABLE, cannot replace and should not replace due process and facts. LONG TERM.
Seriously, are you okay? That is the most incoherent, indirect piece of shit. A. You are freaking out and responding to things I never said. B. Stop making it about one case? This thread is about one case. Stop making this thread about something it isn't. C. You can't have due fucking process when you are stuck in a life or death situation. That is why there are rules that cover that. D. I didn't say a fucking thing about revenge acts. Wait, I did and said they are murder. I am talking about the thread's topic. I think you are arguing with an invisible person. Still a little pissy about the word usage thing, eh? Get over it. This is a different thread.
(June 25, 2012 at 8:03 am)Brian37 Wrote: Where the hell do you get off trying to FALSELY accuse people about the affects of rape on a child. NO SANE person thinks rap of a child is "no big deal".
I do not know how many times I have to repeat myself. You keep mixing subjects here.
1. A natural and UNDERSTANDABLE reaction to a horrible crime.
2. HOW long term we as a society treat the accused on ANY crime they are accused of.
I am saying what this dad did was UNDERSTANDABLE , but it should be the exception and not the rule.
Again, when you deal with a species that is capable of lying, and we do it all the time, and you are also dealing with a species capable of being vindictive, A CLIMATE OF FEAR is a bad thing to foster LONG TERM.
QUIT making this about one person and one type of crime. IT SUCKS THAT THIS SHIT HAPPENS AND NO SANE PARENT wants this shit to happen to their kid AND EVERYONE agrees that rape of a child has a harmful affect on them. NO ONE IS ARGUING THAT.
If a society just wants to "get even" then we don't need a system of law and we don't need lawyers to defend the accused. In the civilized west LONG TERM we have gotten away from the barbaric "street justice" of fascist states be they the likes of Stalin or theocracies of Iran.
If you are unwilling to give due process even to the worst in our society, long term that mentality will get to the innocent.
People get put in prison even with our system in place, for stupid shit for minor possession when a fine or treatment will benefit society. I see stories in the news all the time where people spend time in prison for ALL SORTS of crimes they did not commit.
THE POINT IS that since our system is not perfect, the last thing we should be basing our reactions on are our emotions, NO MATTER WHAT THE CHARGE. The emotions, WHILE UNDERSTANDABLE, cannot replace and should not replace due process and facts. LONG TERM.
Seriously, are you okay? That is the most incoherent, indirect piece of shit. A. You are freaking out and responding to things I never said. B. Stop making it about one case? This thread is about one case. Stop making this thread about something it isn't. C. You can't have due fucking process when you are stuck in a life or death situation. That is why there are rules that cover that. D. I didn't say a fucking thing about revenge acts. Wait, I did and said they are murder. I am talking about the thread's topic. I think you are arguing with an invisible person. Still a little pissy about the word usage thing, eh? Get over it. This is a different thread.
I am not freaking out. I have just seen too much media hype from the likes of Fox News and Nancy Grace that if they had their way it would be shoot first and ask questions later.
The subject IS one case, but we are not talking about long term here. I am just saying as a reminder, YEA this sucks and it shouldn't happen, but I do worry about the climate of fear of our fearmongering media that does sell add space to the gullible and credulous.
If we today can still sell stupid ideas like Big Foot and Mayan crap, which was sold to me as a kid in "In search of" it isn't a matter of ridding the world of stupid claims, but reminding society that we cant base our reactions on what we "feel" all the time. Otherwise why have a court or jury system if we only want to convict on what we "feel".
I am not over reacting. I have seen the rush to judgment plenty of times in my private life, and in news as well.
You are talking about one case. I am simply here to remind people that the future and your own rights REGARDLESS depend on a climate of facts first before emotion.
Brian, you can't bust into a conversation where people are talking about a specific case and then reply to a person who is talking about a single case as if that person were talking about every case and then state that you are talking about every case. Well, apparently you can, but I'm not going to be able to follow you. You just strawmanned me to hell and back because you seem to think that everyone should follow the leader wherever he may go. I was interested in discussing the topic at hand. Yes, conversations evolve, but you have to, I don't know, stick to responding to those who have evolved the conversation with you or risk responding to a poster with strawmen. Now, I would appreciate it if you read my posts before responding to them and only attributed things I actually said to me. That is my biggest pet peeve. I have had "I don't agree with that" turn into "You're a hateful stuck up bitch" and "I think that was self defense" turn into "You dance on people's graves." I'm a little exhausted at all of the pretend conversations going on here.
(June 26, 2012 at 8:52 pm)Shell B Wrote: Brian, you can't bust into a conversation where people are talking about a specific case and then reply to a person who is talking about a single case as if that person were talking about every case and then state that you are talking about every case. Well, apparently you can, but I'm not going to be able to follow you. You just strawmanned me to hell and back because you seem to think that everyone should follow the leader wherever he may go. I was interested in discussing the topic at hand. Yes, conversations evolve, but you have to, I don't know, stick to responding to those who have evolved the conversation with you or risk responding to a poster with strawmen. Now, I would appreciate it if you read my posts before responding to them and only attributed things I actually said to me. That is my biggest pet peeve. I have had "I don't agree with that" turn into "You're a hateful stuck up bitch" and "I think that was self defense" turn into "You dance on people's graves." I'm a little exhausted at all of the pretend conversations going on here.
Oh boy, really?
I do read them, not agreeing with me does not mean I don't read them. And I defy you to quote me where I called you a "hateful stuck up bitch", those were YOUR WORDS not mine. So if anyone is sticking words in others mouths they didn't say, it would be you, not me.
And again I AGREE WITH SELF DEFENSE . I don't agree with a collective society fostering a "get even" mentality as a default. Long term it is bad for the collective rights of all.
You are disagreeing with things I never said, hence why I say you are not bothering to read my posts. As for the hateful stuckup bitch thing, read that in context. I did not say that you called me that. I was pointing out how tiresome it gets to have "debates" with people who take what you say and run it all the way up the fucking river into lala land. So, nah, it's still you putting shit in other people's mouths. Well, more accurately, just arguing words that aren't there.
Well, bully for you. I never disagreed with that or really said much about the overall revenge thing, other than to say it is bad, in this thread, so re-read it and calm your nuts.
FYI, all caps is unnecessary. I can read lowercase letters.
(June 26, 2012 at 9:40 pm)Shell B Wrote: You are disagreeing with things I never said, hence why I say you are not bothering to read my posts. As for the hateful stuckup bitch thing, read that in context. I did not say that you called me that. I was pointing out how tiresome it gets to have "debates" with people who take what you say and run it all the way up the fucking river into lala land. So, nah, it's still you putting shit in other people's mouths. Well, more accurately, just arguing words that aren't there.
Well, bully for you. I never disagreed with that or really said much about the overall revenge thing, other than to say it is bad, in this thread, so re-read it and calm your nuts.
FYI, all caps is unnecessary. I can read lowercase letters.
Unless I touched upon a nerve there would be no reason to equate my position to even your "metaphor" of running all the way of ALLEGEDLY equating you as to being "hateful stuck up bitch", which you now admit I was not calling you that.
I simply stuck a mirror to you, and not only you but ANYONE reading this who has a NATURAL reaction to a real event that no one likes, and suggesting that evidence is always a far better climate for a society than "getting even".
