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RE: I can feel your anger
July 29, 2012 at 9:48 pm
(July 2, 2012 at 10:10 pm)Selliedjoup Wrote: It's scary thing when people believe that the metaphysical belief of a wheelcheered scientist is fact.I'm still unsure wheher it's due to science being used as a religious replacement by some people. The lack of wisdom by those who supposedly hold a superior intellect is also scary.
If all you need to affirm that as the universe has a total energy of 0, and that causality is dismissed as time did not exist then it's sufficient to confirm your own theories? Really? Are these your trump cards? Just admit you have no idea otherwise your persepctive is as warped as any other fundamentalists.
Hey all, freshly minted member here; I am really sorry if this question results in the morbid affirmation in the validity of this thread, but it was only lightly touched on - and as it is in the opening OP I thought it deserved more than a touch up.
Mssrs Soup, can you expand on your understanding of a zero energy universe, your unlikely correlation of this idea to Dr Hawking, the use of the word "metaphysical" and "belief" in relation to the hypothesis and in particular why you would think that the proposed hypothesis would "dismiss causality"?
Cheers
B
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RE: I can feel your anger
July 30, 2012 at 12:11 am
(July 29, 2012 at 2:56 am)Selliedjoup Wrote: (July 28, 2012 at 8:25 am)Norfolk And Chance Wrote: That's because you're a fucking retard.
By retarded you mean I deny your application of knowledge.
No. I am confident that by 'retarded', Norfolk meant 'retarded'. Obfuscation may be your style, not his.
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RE: I can feel your anger
July 30, 2012 at 12:26 am
(July 29, 2012 at 1:22 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Pixie_Science
I love uncyclopedia, their general header for science is, in my estimation -a work of art.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: I can feel your anger
July 30, 2012 at 12:59 am
(July 29, 2012 at 6:07 am)Zen Badger Wrote: If you have evidence that materialism is incorrect then let's see it.
It's not up to me to disprove it, you're making the claim that materialism is correct. I'm questioning why you view it as correct.
All those who subscribe to materialism may as well state "I know what I know and anything I don't know doesn't exist", it fails to address the limitations of humanity and the unknown/unknowable. Hardly very illuminating from a philosphical perspective, but very useful if you need certainty.
Quote:Everything that we know exists has evidence for it, that is how we know it exists.
There are many things in this universe that we don't have knowledge of, life on other planets, physical laws that we are yet to discover, many, many species on this very planet which we are yet to identify.
But until such time as we do have evidence for them we have no reason to think they exist.
And the same goes for your god.
Your logic is faultless and I find it amusing that you feel the need to make the statement: "Everything that we know exists has evidence for it, that is how we know it exists.."
Your approach suggests your preference for no god, which is fine if that's your goal, but there's no point claiming your position offers something of value, insights and objective view for anyone away from the materialist's flock. I have no idea why materialists promote their position. It's as basic as "stupid is as stupid does", no pun intended.
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RE: I can feel your anger
July 30, 2012 at 1:04 am
Materialism needs no promoters.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: I can feel your anger
July 30, 2012 at 3:00 am
(This post was last modified: July 30, 2012 at 3:04 am by Selliedjoup.)
(July 30, 2012 at 1:04 am)Rhythm Wrote: Materialism needs no promoters.
Of course it does, to subscribe to the closed system model you still require proof to validate it as a viable theory.
(July 30, 2012 at 12:11 am)cato123 Wrote: (July 29, 2012 at 2:56 am)Selliedjoup Wrote: By retarded you mean I deny your application of knowledge.
No. I am confident that by 'retarded', Norfolk meant 'retarded'. Obfuscation may be your style, not his.
What I say is black and white. I don't care what his opinion is of me, if he has a point to make, make it.
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RE: I can feel your anger
July 30, 2012 at 9:17 am
(July 30, 2012 at 3:00 am)Selliedjoup Wrote: Of course it does, to subscribe to the closed system model you still require proof to validate it as a viable theory.
Far less proof than subscription to magical fairy land as a viable theory one would assume.
Self-authenticating private evidence is useless, because it is indistinguishable from the illusion of it. ― Kel, Kelosophy Blog
If you’re going to watch tele, you should watch Scooby Doo. That show was so cool because every time there’s a church with a ghoul, or a ghost in a school. They looked beneath the mask and what was inside?
The f**king janitor or the dude who runs the waterslide. Throughout history every mystery. Ever solved has turned out to be. Not Magic. ― Tim Minchin, Storm
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RE: I can feel your anger
July 30, 2012 at 9:46 am
(This post was last modified: July 30, 2012 at 9:54 am by The Grand Nudger.)
Until something immaterial comes along, there's really no way to proceed otherwise while making claims of knowledge. At what point will you be addressing materialism as it is found today as opposed to materialism as it was presented a century ago? This is all you have isn't it? All that's left of your objections is to bitch and moan about the world around you (and of course others seemingly dry appraisal of the same) because it didn't live up to your magical expectations. Well, I'm sorry that it worked out that way.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: I can feel your anger
July 30, 2012 at 4:36 pm
(July 30, 2012 at 9:46 am)Rhythm Wrote: Until something immaterial comes along, there's really no way to proceed otherwise while making claims of knowledge. At what point will you be addressing materialism as it is found today as opposed to materialism as it was presented a century ago? This is all you have isn't it? All that's left of your objections is to bitch and moan about the world around you (and of course others seemingly dry appraisal of the same) because it didn't live up to your magical expectations. Well, I'm sorry that it worked out that way.
How would you to propose to measure that which is immaterial, or has no means to be scientifically proven? You can assume it doesn't exist, and this is why your view is an applied belief. You're welcome to make claims to knowledge of what we can observe, but claiming any degree of knowledge beyond this is pointless.
At what point will you propose your view of 'materialism'? You've highlighted the difference between classifical and contemporary materialism so it's up to you to state what your position is and how it differs from classical materialism. So far only a classical materialist view as been presented, so despite your claim of it not being classical, I've addressed the points raised, not the tag of classical. Change what you assume if you want to assess a different position.
Why do you think I'm 'bitching' about the world around me? It seems more here seem are disillusioned by it than me. I started out as an atheist and am now agnostic. I didn't start out with any magical expecations, I would others here began with these, so it would be a downer for them
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RE: I can feel your anger
July 30, 2012 at 8:24 pm
(This post was last modified: July 30, 2012 at 8:37 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Do your own work. It isn't up to me to suggest how you might go about measuring something which you ardently wish/hope/believe exists. It is up to you. In the interim, no belief will be required or applied by me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZxHAZChcYU
Pay special attention to yourself here, when you say "You're welcome to make claims to knowledge of what we can observe, but claiming any degree of knowledge beyond this is pointless." this is a statement that very easily falls from the lips of a contemporary materialist (such as myself). It lends no support to any argument for the immaterial whatsoever. It also becomes a mystery as to how you would go from waxing on about the immaterial, which you propose is not capable of being observed, or measured or "proven" in any way by scientific endeavor to this statement (and I haven't seen you offer up any other way of measuring, observing, or "proving" the immaterial -just bitching and moaning).
Just what can we observe then Sell? If we limit ourselves to claims to knowledge of what we can observe, where does that leave us? Materialism. Unless you've observed something else......and I'm all ears on that count.
No beliefs, applied or otherwise, no need for promoters, no nothing. It is simply what can be observed.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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