Does the Bible Contradict Itself?

[Jackalope]

It is commonly thought that Judas impaled himself on his sword, since "hang" and "impale" are the same word. It was a common form of suicide. The word for "hang by the neck" did not come about until 1400 AD.

Citation?

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If "going back to the original Hebrew" results in a passage that has, at best, different words, and at worst a different meaning, then why isn't the whole bible just re-translated from the original Hebrew.

In the case of the OT, we don't have the original works, unless by "orginal" you mean "oldest extant".

In the case of the NT, it was written in Greek, not Hebrew.

[spockrates]

This thread stinks of intellectual dishonestly. You're not talking about contradictions, you're making excuses for them.

I appreciate the constructive criticism, Annik, but your advice is too vague to be helpful. Please provide a specific post in which I was being intellectually dishonest and explain why my response was untrue.

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My apologies for offending you. Perhaps I misunderstood? Please provide the two verses you believe contradict one another so we may discuss them together.

I'm not your fucking secretary. Go back and find them. They are right in this thread.

Perhaps you will be kind enough to give me a post number to make the search easier?

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"And he cast down the pieces of silver into the temple and departed, and went out and hanged himself." (MAT 27:5)

"And falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all of his bowels gushed out." (ACT 1:18)

This is one of the best known biblical contradictions regarding the fate of Judas. Please don't say it's a mistranslation.

Regards

Grimesy

It is commonly thought that Judas impaled himself on his sword, since "hang" and "impale" are the same word. It was a common form of suicide. The word for "hang by the neck" did not come about until 1400 AD.

Interesting response, Undeceived. Are you saying that the Matthew 27:5 is a mistranslation? The explanation I've heard it that Matthew's account that Judas hanged himself was accurate, and Luke explains what happened to Judas' decaying corpse after he hung himself--it decayed to the point where it fell from the rope and burst when it hit the ground.

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So I'd like to ask: What does everyone now think of the idea that some biblical contradictions might be due to ambiguous texts? Interpret a text one possible way, and the contradiction with another text is apparent. Interpret the text another possible way, and the contradiction between texts vanishes like Spock's home planet vanished into a black hole when red matter was injected into its core. It seems to me that several of the suggested contradictions are those caused by such ambiguities of scripture, as I've suggested. For the texts lend themselves to different interpretations (or misinterpretations), and have effect of misleading many who read them.

The question I'd like to ask, then is, "Why? Why would God, if he was carefully leading others to write the books of the Bible, allow the authors to be so unclear and easily misinterpreted? Does this show God lacks knowledge of the effects the chosen words would have on people like us, or show he lacks the power to perfectly guide the writing of them, or show he lacks concern for those who are mislead by his words? Or does it show no God was involved in the writing of the Bible's books at all?" This, I think is a far more interesting inquiry than the common one proposed in the opening post.

[Napoléon]

So I'd like to ask: What does everyone think of the idea that many of the contradictions might be due to ambiguous texts?

I think that if god did exist, and he did divinely inspire this book, he's pretty fucking inept at communicating with us his message, considering he's supposedly omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient.

The fact that we even need to have a debate over whether or not there are contradictions in this book should be an indicator of how poor it is.

[Faith No More]

So I'd like to ask: What does everyone now think of the idea that some biblical contradictions might be due to ambiguous texts? Interpret a text one possible way, and the contradiction with another text is apparent.

I think a book which is supposedly a guideline to save my eternal soul inspired by a deity should be less ambiguous and more explicit when the fate of my sould depends upon a correct interpretation.

[Mystic]

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.



“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

“Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.”


“The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’ “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
“He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life. ”


I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.
“As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love.


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What happens to believers whom don't obey all commands of God including not desiring the life of this world?

[pgrimes15]

It is commonly thought that Judas impaled himself on his sword, since "hang" and "impale" are the same word. It was a common form of suicide. The word for "hang by the neck" did not come about until 1400 AD.

Citation?

---

If "going back to the original Hebrew" results in a passage that has, at best, different words, and at worst a different meaning, then why isn't the whole bible just re-translated from the original Hebrew.

In the case of the OT, we don't have the original works, unless by "orginal" you mean "oldest extant".

In the case of the NT, it was written in Greek, not Hebrew.

Are there old copies of the OT in Hebrew ? (I don't mean "versions that were copied from Hebrew sources" or any such cop-out)
I assumed there must be since Undecieved talked about "going back to the Hebrew" to alter the meaning of a passage.

There must at least be old copies of the Jewish Torah in existance - that is the OT isn't it - and there are plenty of Hebrew speakers in Israel - why not make a definitive, non-interpreted OT, freshly translated by the most accurate and un-biased scholars, then we can stop arguing about whether "hang" meant "impale" and stuff like that.

Regards

Grimesy

[spockrates]

What happens to believers whom don't obey all commands of God including not desiring the life of this world?

Is the question for me, Mystic?

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So I'd like to ask: What does everyone think of the idea that many of the contradictions might be due to ambiguous texts?

I think that if god did exist, and he did divinely inspire this book, he's pretty fucking inept at communicating with us his message, considering he's supposedly omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient.

The fact that we even need to have a debate over whether or not there are contradictions in this book should be an indicator of how poor it is.

Thaks for your frank opinion. You might be right, but that remains to be seen. Do you mind if I give you some responses Christians of different denominations have given me when I've asked the same questions of them? I'd like to know what you think of their answers.

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So I'd like to ask: What does everyone now think of the idea that some biblical contradictions might be due to ambiguous texts? Interpret a text one possible way, and the contradiction with another text is apparent.

I think a book which is supposedly a guideline to save my eternal soul inspired by a deity should be less ambiguous and more explicit when the fate of my sould depends upon a correct interpretation.

Thank you. Perhaps you are correct; I'd like to know for certain. Is it OK if I ask your opinion of responses Christians have given me to the same question?

[Napoléon]

Thaks for your frank opinion. You might be right, but that remains to be seen. Do you mind if I give you some responses Christians of different denominations have given me when I've asked the same questions of them? I'd like to know what you think of their answers.

You don't have to bother, I can tell you right now.

Bullshit

Unless ofcourse they've given you reasonable and rational responses, in which case miracles really do happen.

[Cinjin]

Or does it show no God was involved in the writing of the Bible's books at all?"

This is exactly what it shows, and only a brainwashed person, desperate for meaning, love and an afterlife, could read the entire book, do the tiniest bit of research and still think that this book was written by an omnipotent god.

Ever notice how every god known to mankind has NEVER physically revealed himself to the entire planet?? Ever notice how every god known to mankind has personality traits exactly like humans?? Ever notice that nearly every god known to mankind is ready and willing to kill you and others based on the nationality you were born into?? Most importantly, have you ever noticed that every god that has ever given the human race a message has only ever done so in an old book???

There's many many more, but why do you think these things are?? There's always the fucktard answer: My god (who just happens to be the one true god) requires faith and will reveal himself to those who are "worthy." But isn't it far more likely that they're all a concoction that was produced out of ancient man's need to explain the unexplainable and gain some kind of control over the horrible natural events and accidents that plague mankind's daily lives?

In the bronze age, if your son dies of an infection or an earthquake wipes out your homeland, or the rain refuses to fall on your crops - fear takes over. When most any person (let alone a bronze age simpleton) finds that they have no control over what's happening to them, they look to create ANYTHING that will offer them peace and explain away their woes. The reason why everyone on earth has an old book or an ancient manuscript or tablet is because we're all the same.

The thousands of gods that have been invented over the span of the human race are no more real than the monster that lives under your bed. Both are an interpretation of the stimuli that happen around us. What makes the Bible special? You do. Your acceptance and interpretation of it is all that makes it any different from any other ancient scribblings. Ask any Muslim; they'll tell you that it is a fact that the Quran was written by Allah himself. Well, why aren't we all reading it then? Because the majority of the world already has their own "special book" that their parents told them was the absolute truth. You want to believe your special book is the inspired word of your god? Go ahead ... you're a brainwashed relic of the bronze age.

[spockrates]

Thaks for your frank opinion. You might be right, but that remains to be seen. Do you mind if I give you some responses Christians of different denominations have given me when I've asked the same questions of them? I'd like to know what you think of their answers.

You don't have to bother, I can tell you right now.

Bullshit

Unless ofcourse they've given you reasonable and rational responses, in which case miracles really do happen.

OK, thanks for helping me out. The most common response given by Evangelicals and Fundamentalists is this: They cite this passage of scripture.

10 When he was alone, the Twelve and the others around him asked him about the parables. 11 He told them, “The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables 12 so that,

“‘they may be ever seeing but never perceiving,
    and ever hearing but never understanding;
otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!’"

(Mark 4)

They then say that God reveals the true interpretation to his own, and leaves others in the dark.