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RE: Do atheists need some faith?
July 18, 2012 at 7:57 pm
(July 18, 2012 at 7:06 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Quote:If so, isn't there a little faith involved that there really isn't any evidence for theism that may have been overlooked or yet to be discovered?
That's really a silly argument and a thinly disguised take on Pascal's Wager which has been thoroughly debunked. Produce some evidence for your god and we'll discuss it. Do not expect me to waste my whole life waiting for you...or anyone else...to invent evidence for your god because let's face it, you aren't talking about allah or Odin.
You are also guilty of equivocation - a logical fallacy - with the misleading use of a word with multiple meanings. In this case it is the word "faith", which, in the context you are quoting is synonymous with "confidence" as in "I have faith that Manchester United can overcome their difficulties and win the Premier League next year".
Don't suppose that will stop you using it again though.
Regards
Grimesy
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful. — Edward Gibbon
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RE: Do atheists need some faith?
July 18, 2012 at 9:15 pm
(July 18, 2012 at 5:34 pm)nazra7 Wrote: But what confuses me is that, while I choose not to believe in this teapot, I also have some faith that there is probably no evidence ever to be discovered for it.
BANG! Answer of the week!
You are currently experiencing a lucky and very brief window of awareness, sandwiched in between two periods of timeless and utter nothingness. So why not make the most of it, and stop wasting your life away trying to convince other people that there is something else? The reality is obvious.
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RE: Do atheists need some faith?
July 18, 2012 at 9:51 pm
From the 1st page:
nazra7 Wrote:Do atheists also have faith that there is probably no evidence awaiting discovery for theism? There's no faith needed because there's no evidence 'awaiting' to be discovered. Jesus has supposedly come and gone and now the Bible is finished. The Bible is also faulty in a lot of ways that reveal it isn't the truth. End of story.
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it" ~ Aristotle
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RE: Do atheists need some faith?
July 18, 2012 at 10:44 pm
(This post was last modified: July 18, 2012 at 11:00 pm by Selliedjoup.)
Of course, atheists need faith that materialsim is an appropriate way to assess the existence or non-existence of a god.
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RE: Do atheists need some faith?
July 18, 2012 at 10:55 pm
I have faith in the assumption that I will not go to bed tonight and wake up yesterday morning.
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RE: Do atheists need some faith?
July 18, 2012 at 11:11 pm
(This post was last modified: July 18, 2012 at 11:11 pm by Mystic.)
(July 18, 2012 at 10:44 pm)Selliedjoup Wrote: Of course, atheists need faith that materialsim is an appropriate way to assess the existence or non-existence of a god.
How so? All they must assume is that materialism is possible. And even if they assume materialism is not possible, at most it can prove a Designer, but not a being worthy of worship.
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RE: Do atheists need some faith?
July 18, 2012 at 11:21 pm
(This post was last modified: July 18, 2012 at 11:26 pm by KnockEmOuttt.)
(July 18, 2012 at 5:26 pm)nazra7 Wrote: I'm sure you've all heard that it takes more faith to be an atheist than a theist.
What? No. Incorrect.
(July 18, 2012 at 5:26 pm)nazra7 Wrote: It seems that many atheists are atheists not because of evidence against theism but because of a lack of evidence for theism. Is this true?
Both. There is a lack of evidence to support theism, and there is a great deal of evidence that supports things that do not match up with theist beliefs.
(July 18, 2012 at 5:26 pm)nazra7 Wrote: If so, isn't there a little faith involved that there really isn't any evidence for theism that may have been overlooked or yet to be discovered?
No faith involved. If it isn't discovered, it isn't evidence.
(July 18, 2012 at 6:13 pm)nazra7 Wrote: Quote:With all of the desperate religious nuts out there, if there was evidence, I assure you it wouldn't be overlooked.
How can you be sure that you have not overlooked or misunderstood something that may be evidence for theism if not on faith?
If I haven't seen it, it's not evidence. Show me this evidence and then we'll talk.
(July 18, 2012 at 5:34 pm)nazra7 Wrote: But what confuses me is that, while I choose not to believe in this teapot, I also have some faith that there is probably no evidence ever to be discovered for it.
Do atheists also have faith that there is probably no evidence awaiting discovery for theism?
I know there is currently no real evidence for theism. I'm not making any assumptions. I'll evaluate the evidence as it comes.
You really believe in a man who has helped to save the world twice, with the power to change his physical appearance? An alien who travels though time and space-- in a police box?!? ![[Image: TARDIS.gif]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=www.smileyvault.com%2Falbums%2Fuserpics%2F11195%2FTARDIS.gif)
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RE: Do atheists need some faith?
July 18, 2012 at 11:29 pm
(July 18, 2012 at 11:11 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: (July 18, 2012 at 10:44 pm)Selliedjoup Wrote: Of course, atheists need faith that materialsim is an appropriate way to assess the existence or non-existence of a god.
How so? All they must assume is that materialism is possible. And even if they assume materialism is not possible, at most it can prove a Designer, but not a being worthy of worship.
By requiring material evidence to assess whether a god exists they have assumed it to be true, not possible. I have no idea how we could assess whether a god was 'worthy' of worship, unless it came down and instructed me to worship it.
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RE: Do atheists need some faith?
July 18, 2012 at 11:40 pm
(July 18, 2012 at 11:29 pm)Selliedjoup Wrote: By requiring material evidence to assess whether a god exists they have assumed it to be true, not possible.
This is not true necessarily. It's more like, assuming the material world is real, it can explain life, through this and that all the way to evolution. Since the material world hypothesis is supported by evidence, and there is nothing to falsify it, it's a reasonable theory. There is no evidence to suggest that it's false, therefore there is no reason to assume there must be a Creator.
At if physical evidence proves a Creator, it doesn't prove God.
Quote: I have no idea how we could assess whether a god was 'worthy' of worship, unless it came down and instructed me to worship it.
Why would you believe in this god that came down though? What if it was lying?
What about people whom this god never came down and instructed them to worship it?
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RE: Do atheists need some faith?
July 19, 2012 at 1:01 am
I would never ask another intelligent being to bend and worship me. If a being of higher intelligence, a god even, would ask of me what I would not ask of someone, that intelligence is less than I am in a vital way, especially if it puts on airs of compassion and love while demanding my humiliation and submission.
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