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RE: Does anyone have one reason that supports infallibilty?
July 30, 2012 at 7:49 pm
(July 30, 2012 at 7:05 pm)catfish Wrote: (July 21, 2012 at 8:31 am)genkaus Wrote: What you fail to completely understand is that neither the German scientist's book nor the transcript have ever been claimed to be infallible. Your bible does. Which means both that nobody lied and everything was transcribed correctly.
Bolded for emphasis (mine).
These are your words, not mine. You made the claim that the Bible claimed to be infallible. Care to deny your own words?
Why, yes, I do. Read the whole statement completely instead of taking a part of it out of the context. I said "neither the German scientist's book nor the transcript have ever been claimed to be infallible", not "neither the German scientist's book nor the transcript have ever claimed to be infallible". The distinction being that the claim of infallibility in the latter case is in the text itself. In the same vein, I mistakenly said "your bible does", when I should have said "your bible has". As far as I can tell, you have been harping on a grammatical mistake I made posts ago - a mistake which has not been repeated on my part. I can only assume that this is a deflection on your part from the main argument - you know, the one where you claim that the bible is infallible because it admits its faults.
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RE: Does anyone have one reason that supports infallibilty?
July 30, 2012 at 8:14 pm
(This post was last modified: July 30, 2012 at 8:33 pm by catfish.)
(July 30, 2012 at 7:49 pm)genkaus Wrote: (July 30, 2012 at 7:05 pm)catfish Wrote: Bolded for emphasis (mine).
These are your words, not mine. You made the claim that the Bible claimed to be infallible. Care to deny your own words?
Why, yes, I do. Read the whole statement completely instead of taking a part of it out of the context. I said "neither the German scientist's book nor the transcript have ever been claimed to be infallible", not "neither the German scientist's book nor the transcript have ever claimed to be infallible". The distinction being that the claim of infallibility in the latter case is in the text itself. In the same vein, I mistakenly said "your bible does", when I should have said "your bible has". As far as I can tell, you have been harping on a grammatical mistake I made posts ago - a mistake which has not been repeated on my part. I can only assume that this is a deflection on your part from the main argument - you know, the one where you claim that the bible is infallible because it admits its faults.
So, you deny your own words and then repeat the same thing you just denied?
Intellectual dishonesty at it's best (or worst if you think of how stupid that was). (bolded again, for her pleasure...)
Show me where I claimed the Bible was infallible and was not simply asking a question...
(July 30, 2012 at 7:47 pm)Minimalist Wrote: You're being dense, catfish.
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-acb/acb-t002.html
Quote:Christians do not claim that the humans who penned the books of the Bible were always accurate in everything they said or did. We simply believe that the Bible is right when it claims that God guided these men in their task of writing Scripture, in such a way that the result is an infallible book.
Quote:2 Timothy 3:16 contains the classic claim that the Bible was produced by God, not just men:
All Scripture is inspired by God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.
Ironically, 2 Timothy and the other pastoral epistles are later forgeries by some xtian liar using the name of "Paul" to impress the other dolts.
Leave it to xtians to base a claim of infallibility on a forgery!
I don't see where 2 Timothy mentions anything about being "infallible". It just seems to point to God's inspiration and the usefullness of scripture...
Besides that, where are "all scripture" located? I'm quite certain there was a lot more than is currently included...
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RE: Does anyone have one reason that supports infallibilty?
July 30, 2012 at 8:50 pm
(July 20, 2012 at 3:21 pm)catfish Wrote: Just one...
This is asked from atheists and deists...
2 Corinthians 11:12-15
New International Version (NIV)
12 And I will keep on doing what I am doing in order to cut the ground from under those who want an opportunity to be considered equal with us in the things they boast about. 13 For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. 15 It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.
It's quite funny to me that you would pick this verse to say that the Bible is fallible, Paul's speaking of those who claim to be preachers of the word for their own benefit, they cared nothing for those that they were preaching to. What Paul is referring to, is what we call today as TV money seeking preachers, doing it for their glory and not God's. The funny thing I mentioned and have not yet explained is this, Paul was speaking about you!
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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RE: Does anyone have one reason that supports infallibilty?
July 30, 2012 at 8:55 pm
(July 30, 2012 at 8:50 pm)Godschild Wrote: (July 20, 2012 at 3:21 pm)catfish Wrote: Just one...
This is asked from atheists and deists...
2 Corinthians 11:12-15
New International Version (NIV)
12 And I will keep on doing what I am doing in order to cut the ground from under those who want an opportunity to be considered equal with us in the things they boast about. 13 For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. 15 It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.
It's quite funny to me that you would pick this verse to say that the Bible is fallible, Paul's speaking of those who claim to be preachers of the word for their own benefit, they cared nothing for those that they were preaching to. What Paul is referring to, is what we call today as TV money seeking preachers, doing it for their glory and not God's. The funny thing I mentioned and have not yet explained is this, Paul was speaking about you!
No, that quote was picked to entice the hypocrites to join in.
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RE: Does anyone have one reason that supports infallibilty?
July 30, 2012 at 8:56 pm
The preachers you see on TV quote from the same fairy tale, they sing out of the same songbook, for every verse you have, they have one as well. You demean your own faith every time you demean theirs.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Does anyone have one reason that supports infallibilty?
July 30, 2012 at 9:06 pm
(July 30, 2012 at 8:14 pm)catfish Wrote: So, you deny your own words and then repeat the same thing you just denied?
Intellectual dishonesty at it's best (or worst if you think of how stupid that was). (bolded again, for her pleasure...)
Read again. Where did I repeat myself?
(July 30, 2012 at 8:14 pm)catfish Wrote: Show me where I claimed the Bible was infallible and was not simply asking a question...
Well, if you don't claim the bible to be infallible and I say that it is definitely fallible, then there is no discussion to be had. The bible is fallible, faulty, often false and therefore not trustworthy.
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RE: Does anyone have one reason that supports infallibilty?
July 30, 2012 at 10:00 pm
(July 30, 2012 at 9:06 pm)genkaus Wrote: (July 30, 2012 at 8:14 pm)catfish Wrote: So, you deny your own words and then repeat the same thing you just denied?
Intellectual dishonesty at it's best (or worst if you think of how stupid that was). (bolded again, for her pleasure...)
Read again. Where did I repeat myself?
(July 30, 2012 at 8:14 pm)catfish Wrote: Show me where I claimed the Bible was infallible and was not simply asking a question...
Well, if you don't claim the bible to be infallible and I say that it is definitely fallible, then there is no discussion to be had. The bible is fallible, faulty, often false and therefore not trustworthy.
You said the Bible makes the claim of infallibility (twice), and you denied your own words (twice).
Therefore you are intellectually dishonest and as such, not worthy of a response after this one...
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RE: Does anyone have one reason that supports infallibilty?
July 31, 2012 at 1:14 am
(July 30, 2012 at 10:00 pm)catfish Wrote: You said the Bible makes the claim of infallibility (twice), and you denied your own words (twice).
Therefore you are intellectually dishonest and as such, not worthy of a response after this one...
Wrong. I made the claim that the claim of biblical infallibility is made - twice. The first time - due to poor wording - the implication was made that such a claim could be found in the bible itself. That misconception was explicitly corrected the second time around.
And all this won't distract me from the fact that you still haven't committed to a position. Do you think the bible is infallible or not?
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RE: Does anyone have one reason that supports infallibilty?
July 31, 2012 at 2:11 am
(July 31, 2012 at 1:14 am)genkaus Wrote: (July 30, 2012 at 10:00 pm)catfish Wrote: You said the Bible makes the claim of infallibility (twice), and you denied your own words (twice).
Therefore you are intellectually dishonest and as such, not worthy of a response after this one...
Wrong. I made the claim that the claim of biblical infallibility is made - twice. The first time - due to poor wording - the implication was made that such a claim could be found in the bible itself. That misconception was explicitly corrected the second time around.
Sorry, I have to point out this blatant error also. Here is what you typed the second time:
"The distinction being that the claim of infallibility in the latter case is in the text itself."
So, show me where in the text that the claim of infallibilty is made...
(July 31, 2012 at 1:14 am)genkaus Wrote: And all this won't distract me from the fact that you still haven't committed to a position. Do you think the bible is infallible or not?
Read page 5 and come back with some more nonsense pls.
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RE: Does anyone have one reason that supports infallibilty?
July 31, 2012 at 3:25 am
(This post was last modified: July 31, 2012 at 3:50 am by Godscreated.)
(July 30, 2012 at 8:55 pm)catfish Wrote: (July 30, 2012 at 8:50 pm)Godschild Wrote: It's quite funny to me that you would pick this verse to say that the Bible is fallible, Paul's speaking of those who claim to be preachers of the word for their own benefit, they cared nothing for those that they were preaching to. What Paul is referring to, is what we call today as TV money seeking preachers, doing it for their glory and not God's. The funny thing I mentioned and have not yet explained is this, Paul was speaking about you!
No, that quote was picked to entice the hypocrites to join in.
No, by what you have posted you are using those verses to defend your opinion, sorry but those verses want cut it. Scriptures were never written to defend themselves nor God, you're on the losing end of this stick. However Matt. 5: 17-20 does say that they will all be fulfilled and by the One you claim is not our Savior.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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