Paul's Beliefs

[Justtristo]

According to Earl Doherty, in the "Pauline" Epistles and in epistles such as Hebrews. Jesus crucifixion occurred in some level of the heavens, those who killed him were the demonic "powers and principalities". That would make sense since the Epistles are describing a Jesus who never had an earthly incarnation.

A god who was crucified was not an embrassment to early Christians as apologists assume it would have been. Plenty of people worshiped Attis who died by castrating himself for example.

So?

Those bible verses you mentioned could have easily described a Jesus which never had an "earthly" incarnation.

[FallentoReason]

Justtristo is spot on.

Do you realise Drich that Paul not once bothers with the life of Jesus? Why on earth doesn't he use everything in the Christian arsenal to back up his mysterious 'spiritual revelations'? Was Jesus not just on earth embarking on a ministry to save the world? The silence is deafening.

[Angrboda]

Christ never revealed himself to me, spiritually or otherwise. Unless by 'Christ' you mean that ugly Mr. Swenson, the school handyman who took a fancy to me in the fifth grade, and used to always try to corner me by the equipment shed if I happened to try to cut across the back of the school at the end of recess. Good thing I was quick.

But that's probably not what you mean.

[Drich]

[quote='Justtristo' pid='316154' dateline='1343448664']
[quote='Drich' pid='316151' dateline='1343448448']

So?
[/quote]

Those bible verses you mentioned could have easily described a Jesus which never had an "earthly" incarnation.
[/quote]

Even the ones that point to his earthly incarnation?

---

[quote='FallentoReason' pid='316158' dateline='1343449433']
Justtristo is spot on.

[quote]Do you realise Drich that Paul not once bothers with the life of Jesus? [/quote]
I left you with over 100 passages the paul used to point to "The life of Christ." What are you talking about?

[quote]Why on earth doesn't he use everything in the Christian arsenal to back up his mysterious 'spiritual revelations'?[/quote]He does.

[quote] Was Jesus not just on earth embarking on a ministry to save the world? The silence is deafening.[/quote]What silence? You have well over 100 Passages to indivisually dispell before you can make a statement like this.

This is call a straw man fallacy otherwise.

[FallentoReason]

It has been pointed out to you that the Hellenistic culture of the time had no problems in believing works that happened in another realm. Paul's central teaching is around this one work that happened in the heavens; a saviour god being crucified.

Your 100+ references are nothing to worry about unless Paul had made a connection with the Gospel Jesus, which mysteriously was unknown to him.

On a side note, why does it matter so much to you that Jesus had to be on earth? Don't you have the faith that Jesus communicates to you like he did to Paul? I think it's fair to say you're in actual fact an evidentialist like me. Your faith necessarily depends on historical evidence. Of course, the difference between you and me is that I run a tight ship when it comes to what non-flawed evidence looks like.

[fr0d0]

* fr0d0 sees no argument yet

[FallentoReason]

* fr0d0 sees no argument yet

Glad you agree then that Paul never believed in a human Christ.

[Justtristo]

Those bible verses you mentioned could have easily described a Jesus which never had an "earthly" incarnation.

Even the ones that point to his earthly incarnation?

Yes I know those verses in the Epistles like Galatians 4:4

But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons.

(Galatians 4:4 ESV)

Born of woman? If there have been a historical Jesus which in the time this epistle was asserted as being written (50's AD), there would have been people still alive who would have personally know this Jesus. So making such a statement like this would be unnecessary.

[Drich]

It has been pointed out to you that the Hellenistic culture of the time had no problems in believing works that happened in another realm. Paul's central teaching is around this one work that happened in the heavens; a saviour god being crucified.

You have provided that no proof that any of the Jews were apart of this culture (The Saducees The Jewish Leadership and authority Did not believe in any existance outside of the one they were currently living) Let alone Paul speak to the nature of the whole of Christianity existing outside of this realm. You made the assertion, So if Paul's messages were all directed to a Christ outside of this realm then provide some passage that indicates what you are claiming. (I will not be accepting anymore speculation and wish thinking as 'proof.')

Your 100+ references are nothing to worry about unless Paul had made a connection with the Gospel Jesus, which mysteriously was unknown to him.

I left passages were paul directly Quotes the 'Gospel of Jesus' What are you talking about?

On a side note, why does it matter so much to you that Jesus had to be on earth?

Seriously?

Don't you have the faith that Jesus communicates to you like he did to Paul?

Yes and it is because The Holy Spirit told me He was of this Earth, that I am inclined to believe it.

I think it's fair to say you're in actual fact an evidentialist like me. Your faith necessarily depends on historical evidence. Of course, the difference between you and me is that I run a tight ship when it comes to what non-flawed evidence looks like.

Then PROVIDE IT!
I have been asking for Evidence since the beginning and providing 'Evidence' to counter your points, and yet you ignore and press on with your faith. Which is fine so long as you undersatnd what you 'believe' has nothing to do with evidence. Ironically your beliefs are more faith based now, then when you believed.

---

Even the ones that point to his earthly incarnation?

Yes I know those verses in the Epistles like Galatians 4:4

But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons.

(Galatians 4:4 ESV)

Born of woman? If there have been a historical Jesus which in the time this epistle was asserted as being written (50's AD), there would have been people still alive who would have personally know this Jesus. So making such a statement like this would be unnecessary.

So is it in your Best estimation that the majority of those people who knew of Christ lived in Galatia (Northern turkey 6400+ miles) from jerusalem??? And that paul did have to state that God was born of woman as a living and breathing man because they would have known... 64/65 hundred miles away in a time when people had no way of knowing these kind of things unless someone like Paul Told Them...

Because, there was a mass exodus of believer and witnesses of Christ to Galatia... [/quote]

[FallentoReason]

Drich, read my words carefully: Paul did NOT know your version of Jesus. No miracles, parables, life events, prophecies or teachings to be found in the epistles about Jesus.

Paul.did.NOT.know.of.an.EARTHLY.Jesus.

Until you acknowledge my argument, all your personal speculations about me being a great 'faith atheist' are absurd and totally ignorant. There is NO REASON to believe Paul spoke of your godman as taking part of history because HE DOES NOT MENTION ANY OF IT.

Until you meet me halfway, consider our discussion over.