Paul's Beliefs

[FallentoReason]

"The mystery about Christ, which in former generations was not revealed to men, is now disclosed to dedicated apostles and prophets through the Spirit."
-Ephesians 3:4,5

I propose that Paul never referred to an Earthly Christ but a Spiritual one. This is made clear in verse 4 which implies the mystery of Christ wasn't made known by Jesus himself (really?) but instead, all mysteries of Christ Jesus were made known to everyday apostles through spiritual revelation.

[fr0d0]

That's not what that says at all. The Spirit is God acting on us. Christs works were spiritual. Which is how, when peolpe saw them directly, they didn't automatically accept them. IOW Christ never made himself known independently, but did so in conjunction with Gods Spirit at all times. Christ was made known to everyone through spiritual revelation, yes.

[Minimalist]

FtR, the bullshit artists will always come up with a couple of shovels full when you question them.

[FallentoReason]

That's not what that says at all. The Spirit is God acting on us. Christs works were spiritual. Which is how, when peolpe saw them directly, they didn't automatically accept them. IOW Christ never made himself known independently, but did so in conjunction with Gods Spirit at all times. Christ was made known to everyone through spiritual revelation, yes.

You've brought a Gospel understanding into it which simply isn't supported by Paul's letters. As you know, Paul is oblivious to Christ's life, teachings, miracles and parables. Therefore to say Paul is saying Christ's 'physical actions' as described in the Gospels were 'spiritual works' just doesn't.. work!

---

FtR, the bullshit artists will always come up with a couple of shovels full when you question them.

Truly I tell you, one of these days!

[cratehorus]

I propose that Paul never referred to an Earthly Christ .

I propose Paul never lived and some random asshole just wrote the name Paul on some shit he wrote....... so you could you spend all day obsessing over it

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

I propose that Paul never referred to an Earthly Christ but a Spiritual one. This is made clear in verse 4 which implies the mystery of Christ wasn't made known by Jesus himself (really?) but instead, all mysteries of Christ Jesus were made known to everyday apostles through spiritual revelation.

An interesting,if not very original idea,and I think plausible,but not conclusive.


References;

"Paul; The Mind Of An Apostle" A N Wilson"

"The Jesus Puzzle" Earl Doherty. I have not read this book, only the Wiki article,but the premise is interesting.He may well be right, or not.
0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

Earl J. Doherty (born 1941)[1] is a Canadian author of The Jesus Puzzle (1999), Challenging the Verdict (2001), and Jesus: Neither God Nor Man (2009). Doherty argues for a version of the Christ myth theory, the view that Jesus did not exist as an historical figure.

The Jesus Puzzle

Doherty has used the title "The Jesus Puzzle" for four different works. In 1997, the Journal of Higher Criticism published his article, "The Jesus Puzzle: Pieces in a Puzzle of Christian Origins."[6] His non-fiction book The Jesus Puzzle: Did Christianity Begin with a Mythical Christ? was published two years later. He uses the title for a website where he publishes additional commentary and responses to reviews and criticisms of his work.[7] He also used the title for a novel which he provides for download on his website.[8]

In all four of these works, Doherty presents views on the origins of Christianity, specifically promoting the view that Jesus is a mythical figure rather than a historical person. Doherty argues that Paul and other writers of the earliest existing proto-Christian Gnostic documents did not believe in Jesus as a person who incarnated on Earth in an historical setting. Rather, they believed in Jesus as a heavenly being who suffered his sacrificial death in the lower spheres of heaven in the hands of the demon spirits, and was subsequently resurrected by God. This Christ myth was not based on a tradition reaching back to a historical Jesus, but on the Old Testament exegesis in the context of Jewish-Hellenistic religious syncretism heavily influenced by Middle Platonism, and what the authors believed to be mystical visions of a risen Jesus.

According to Doherty, the Jesus myth was given a historical setting only by the second generation of Christians, somewhere between the 1st and 2nd century. Doherty claims that even the author of the Gospel of Mark probably did not consider his gospel to be a literal work of history, but an allegorical midrashic composition based on the Old Testament prophecies. In the widely supported two-source hypothesis, the story of Mark was later fused with a separate tradition of anonymous sayings embodied in the Q document into the other gospels; according to Doherty these became interpreted as the literal history of the life of Jesus. Doherty denies any historical value of the Acts of the Apostles, and refers to works by John Knox, Joseph B. Tyson, J.C. O'Neill, Burton L. Mack and Richard Pervo in dating Acts into the 2nd century and regarding it as largely based on legend.[9] In 2009 Doherty self-published a revised edition of his book, with a new title of Jesus: Neither God nor Man.[10]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jesus_Puzzle

[fr0d0]

You've brought a Gospel understanding into it which simply isn't supported by Paul's letters. As you know, Paul is oblivious to Christ's life, teachings, miracles and parables. Therefore to say Paul is saying Christ's 'physical actions' as described in the Gospels were 'spiritual works' just doesn't.. work!

How isn't it supported? Could you explain please?

[Drich]

"The mystery about Christ, which in former generations was not revealed to men, is now disclosed to dedicated apostles and prophets through the Spirit."
-Ephesians 3:4,5

I propose that Paul never referred to an Earthly Christ but a Spiritual one. This is made clear in verse 4 which implies the mystery of Christ wasn't made known by Jesus himself (really?) but instead, all mysteries of Christ Jesus were made known to everyday apostles through spiritual revelation.

you are aware the Paul's works includes passages beyond Eph 3:4,5 right?

Like the book of Romans, 1Cor 1:13, you know what do your own work..
start at page 5 and go forward.
http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/inde...number=101

[The Grand Nudger]

Im still waiting for a reason to re-read any passage of your fairytale whatsoever Drich, I can honestly say that I regret having ever wasted any time on it at all (I find the entire bit -aside from the cain and abel narrative and song of songs-completely amatuer). There is only so much time in my life and there is a mountain of great fiction to cover, every Harry Potter I read is one less War and Peace.

[FallentoReason]

"The mystery about Christ, which in former generations was not revealed to men, is now disclosed to dedicated apostles and prophets through the Spirit."
-Ephesians 3:4,5

I propose that Paul never referred to an Earthly Christ but a Spiritual one. This is made clear in verse 4 which implies the mystery of Christ wasn't made known by Jesus himself (really?) but instead, all mysteries of Christ Jesus were made known to everyday apostles through spiritual revelation.

you are aware the Paul's works includes passages beyond Eph 3:4,5 right?

Yeah of course. I just think these couple of verses capture exactly the disturbing fact that Paul might not have believed in an Earthly Christ but one whose deeds happened spiritually, much like Mithra slaying the bull in another realm as opposed to that being literal history.

Like the book of Romans, 1Cor 1:13, you know what do your own work..
start at page 5 and go forward.
http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/inde...number=101

I just don't understand how Paul, according to you, speaks of an earthly crucifixion but apart from that knows next to nothing about the man he devoted his life to. Sure, it's an argument from silence, but the gap here better have some sort of justification because it's damn big... big enough that I don't see why Paul wasn't preaching a Spiritual Christ. The gap definitely allows for that.