Paul's Beliefs

[FallentoReason]

It's time for some Q&A with Paul the Apostle!

Q: How are we supposed to pray?
(Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words.)

A: The Lord's Prayer
(Matthew's Sermon on the Mount)

[Minimalist]

In all four of these works, Doherty presents views on the origins of Christianity, specifically promoting the view that Jesus is a mythical figure rather than a historical person.

Yet, oddly Pad, xtians will insist that all OTHER gods are mythical figures but their boy is "special."

[Undeceived]

Romans 1:1-4
Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle and set apart for the gospel of God — the gospel he promised beforehand through his prophets in the Holy Scriptures regarding his Son, who as to his earthly life was a descendant of David, and who through the Spirit of holiness was appointed the Son of God in power by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord.

[The Grand Nudger]

They should have engaged in a more thorough vetting process before such an appointment was made.

[Minimalist]

Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle and set apart for the gospel of God — the gospel he promised beforehand through his prophets in the Holy Scriptures regarding his Son, who as to his earthly life was a descendant of David, and who through the Spirit of holiness was appointed the Son of God in power by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord.

What a steaming pile of shit you've got there.

[FallentoReason]

Romans 1:1-4
Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle and set apart for the gospel of God — the gospel he promised beforehand through his prophets in the Holy Scriptures regarding his Son, who as to his earthly life was a descendant of David, and who through the Spirit of holiness was appointed the Son of God in power by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord.

Notice how this is an OT interpretation? Why didn't he mention Jesus of Nazareth, born of the Virgin Mary?

What you have brought up is no different to Mark basing his work on the OT. Paul is no different. His entire revelation of who Christ is comes from 'prophets' i.e. the OT and the spirit. Not once does he refer to Jesus from Nazareth, born of a Virgin who had 12 close Apostles, who travelled the land performing miracles and preaching through parables. Why doesn't Paul ever refer back to such important 'facts'?

[Justtristo]

I agree with Hermann Detering and Robert M Price that Paul of Tarsus was no other than Simon Magus. The character of Paul in the New Testament is a later orthodox version of Simon Magus.

Josephus in Book 20, Chapter 7 of the Antiquities of the Jews mentions a Jewish magician by the name of Simon, who was associated with King Agrippa II, his sister Drusilla and the Roman procurator Felix. That would be no other than Simon Magus. In some versions of Josephus this Simon is nicknamed Atomos (Greek for small), while Paul is a Latin name meaning small as well. In the book of Acts Paul is portrayed to be friends with the same people this Simon Josephus mentions. Also the Jewish-Christian pseudo clementines asserted that Paul and Simon Magus were the same person, not to mention associating with the same sort of people Paul is mentioned associating with in the epistles attributed to him and preaching the same "salvation through faith alone" message you encounter in these epistles.

Now Simon Magus seems to have preached form of Gnosticism which was anti-Torah and stressed salvation through faith alone. That sort message is preached a lot in the "Pauline" epistles. This Simon Magus could also be the ' Spouter of Lies' portrayed in the Dead Sea Scrolls.

[Drich]

Yeah of course. I just think these couple of verses capture exactly the disturbing fact that Paul might not have believed in an Earthly Christ but one whose deeds happened spiritually, much like Mithra slaying the bull in another realm as opposed to that being literal history.

If paul does not believe in Christ why does he teach the crusifiction?

Romans 1:16
[ The Just Live by Faith ] For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.
118.Romans 3:22
even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference;
Romans 3:21-23 (in Context) Romans 3 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
119.Romans 3:24
being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
Romans 3:23-25 (in Context) Romans 3 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
120.Romans 5:1
[ Faith Triumphs in Trouble ] Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
Romans 5:1-3 (in Context) Romans 5 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
121.Romans 5:6
[ Christ in Our Place ] For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
Romans 5:5-7 (in Context) Romans 5 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
122.Romans 5:8
But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

191.1 Corinthians 1:12
Now I say this, that each of you says, “I am of Paul,” or “I am of Apollos,” or “I am of Cephas,” or “I am of Christ.”
1 Corinthians 1:11-13 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 1 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
192.1 Corinthians 1:13
Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?
1 Corinthians 1:12-14 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 1 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
193.1 Corinthians 1:17
For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of no effect.
1 Corinthians 1:16-18 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 1 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
194.1 Corinthians 1:18
[ Christ the Power and Wisdom of God ] For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
1 Corinthians 1:17-19 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 1 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
195.1 Corinthians 1:23
but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness,
1 Corinthians 1:22-24 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 1 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
196.1 Corinthians 1:24
but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.
1 Corinthians 1:23-25 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 1 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

I just don't understand how Paul, according to you, speaks of an earthly crucifixion but apart from that knows next to nothing about the man he devoted his life to. Sure, it's an argument from silence, but the gap here better have some sort of justification because it's damn big... big enough that I don't see why Paul wasn't preaching a Spiritual Christ. The gap definitely allows for that.

Then read the passages again. Paul teaches the crusified and resurrected Christ.

[Justtristo]

According to Earl Doherty, in the "Pauline" Epistles and in epistles such as Hebrews. Jesus crucifixion occurred in some level of the heavens, those who killed him were the demonic "powers and principalities". That would make sense since the Epistles are describing a Jesus who never had an earthly incarnation.

A god who was crucified was not an embrassment to early Christians as apologists assume it would have been. Plenty of people worshiped Attis who died by castrating himself for example.

[Drich]

According to Earl Doherty, in the "Pauline" Epistles and in epistles such as Hebrews. Jesus crucifixion occurred in some level of the heavens, those who killed him were the demonic "powers and principalities". That would make sense since the Epistles are describing a Jesus who never had an earthly incarnation.

A god who was crucified was not an embrassment to early Christians as apologists assume it would have been. Plenty of people worshiped Attis who died by castrating himself for example.

So?