This Should Piss Off Religious Twits

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

All religion is derivative from the existence of God.

Incorrect. NO religion derives from the existence of God. Most religion is based on a belief in the existence of god(s),which is not the same thing. ( I exclude the atheistic religion Buddhism,which is dualistic but has no gods)

[CliveStaples]

Christians are the ones making the claim that morality comes from the bible, therefore they are making the positive claim.

"Positive" or "negative" is irrelevant. Anyone who makes a truth claim has the burden of supporting their claim.

Here, someone has claimed that a particular proposition cannot be proved true from a given set of assumptions. That's a strictly logical claim, and the person who made it has the burden of support/proof.

As for modern laws, I doubt any christian countries and many Islamic countries have a legal code that perfectly mirrors the rules found in their respective book.

But that's not the claim.

The fact is that there is no evidence for the claim that morality comes from religion, and there is evidence for morality coming from evolution. Just think, you ignore bits of the bible that you think are outdated/wrong which means you have morals that are independent of your own holy book. All evidence suggests that morality is not absolute; for example, slavery was OK less than 200 years ago, but its seen as despicable nowadays. The moral code found in religious books will all someday be out of date, so how likely is it that any of them gave you your morality?

But evidence isn't at issue. The question is whether one can derive certain moral values from religion. Whether morality is absolute, when and where certain moral beliefs were held...this is all irrelevant.

The claim is that if you start with any religion in the world, you cannot through logical and reason derive from them certain moral values. That's the claim at issue. The fact that "slavery was OK less than 200 years ago" is irrelevant.

[Minimalist]

All religion is derivative from the existence of God.

That's not what I said. You (and the rest of your ilk) have never provided any evidence that your god...or any god...exists. But religion does exist and most fundie jerkoffs insist that their own goes right back to god himself....or herself.

[downbeatplumb]

I would say that religion is a problem for morals because of their unchanging nature.
Older laws are often repulsive to civilized modern societies.
Did you know for instance, that Vatican city has the lowest age of sexual consent in europe at 12 years of age. It inherited older laws from Italy and has not changed them.
By its clinging to older laws it has a less protective effect.
Religious laws by being inflexible do not have the ability to improve and morals of society do improve leaving the religions behind.

This is the most moral time in human history.

When there is a disaster anywhere in the world most of the other countries pull together to help, how many other ages can say that?

When another countries rulers commits unspeakable acts against its citizens other countries speak out, impose sanctions and sometimes interfere militarily how many other periods can say that?

More people are given a voice now than at any other time, most 1st world countries at least try to be inclusive of other races and sexual orientations.

All this is achieved as the world gets less religious.

The less religious the world becomes the more moral the world becomes.

[jonb]

I think It is time to stand up and when we see a statement that is proven to applaud the maker of that statement Minimalist you have brought a new truth to us.

This thread did piss off religious twits.

Hip Hip Hooray.

[Cinjin]

Anyone who claims that human morals, laws and codes of justice have NOTHING to do with religion is ignorant.

Do yourself a favor. Go and read a bit about Babylonian law 4,000 years ago.

What is it with you people? Do you ALL not know how to read?? Allow me to simplify the two primary points of Min's post for you:

"I adhere to no religion, and I do not think supernatural beings exist ... according to one often-voiced opinion, I can therefore have no moral values [or] ethics."

Address this key point why don't you? Explain why people without your silly religion don't do things like YOU christians do ===> Christian Pedophile

The next key point the author makes is equally as simple when broken down:

Individual human freedom under the rule of law, democracy, equality of race, colour, sex and religion, and freedom of speech ... [cannot] be shown to derive ... from the Bible.

The man is correct. Show me anywhere in the bible that your angry desert god even slightly encourages ANY of the aforementioned. You ask for proof of Min's statement. What do you want him to do? Read the whole bible to you just to make sure it's not in there. It's NOT in there!

However, racism, murder, slavery, rape and blood sacrifice are all in there. Now address what's actually been said instead of making random statements about what you WISH the Bible said in it.

[Lion IRC]

Anyone who claims that human morals, laws and codes of justice have NOTHING to do with religion is ignorant.

Do yourself a favor. Go and read a bit about Babylonian law 4,000 years ago.

What is it with you people? Do you ALL not know how to read?? Allow me to simplify the two primary points of Min's post for you..:

Actually, it can be simplified even further.

''None of these values can be shown to derive from religion, and certainly not from the Bible—on the contrary, many religions and their scriptures are opposed to them"

...that was the only part of the post which was bolded for emphasis.

[the_samaritan]

please my brothers and sister, if u forsake our father, saviour, he can not protect you from the devil and his minions. science is the witchcraft of the devil, do not be fooled!!

[Rayaan]

Well, I already warned you already about preaching. Now you're going to get a ban.

[Cinjin]

please my brothers and sister, if u forsake our father, saviour, he can not protect you from the devil and his minions. science is the witchcraft of the devil, do not be fooled!!

Thanks man. If it weren't for you I would have almost reasoned an answer for myself using logic and informed decisions. Instead, now I believe that an earthbound deity died for my heinous crime of being born, raised from the dead, floated into a 4th dimensional paradise, and has been there for 2000 years building me a palace in a gated community with streets of gold.
Yep, I'm not gonna be fooled by that ridiculous science stuff!!