Why Muslims are under rated.

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

Addendum; To be fair, I did some Googling. I got bored after the first two. Make up your own minds. Sounds a lot like crackpottery of the first degree to me. Can't wait for Min's opinion (assuming he can be bothered)

Winters, Clyde Ahmad

Clyde Ahmad Winters was born in Chicago where he graduated from the University of Illinois-Urbana with degrees in Anthropology and History. His interests also extend to neurobiological learning, linguistics and ancient scripts. Dr. Winters claims to have deciphered the writings of the Berber, Meroitic, Olmec and the Indus Valley cultures. He is a prominent advocate of Afrocentricity, but unfortunately he has allowed his support for this controversial concept to induce him to offer unqualified support for Zimbabwe’s Robert Mugabe.

Our interest in Dr. Winters is his contention that the Olmecs ‘were the descendents of the Atlanteans that formerly lived in ancient Libya’, and the book[496] he wrote supporting this notion. The book is available both in paperback and as an eBook(a). Unfortunately, while he offers considerable evidence that Mesoamerica had a discernable cultural input from Africa he fails to convincingly link this with Plato’s Atlantis. In fact, he makes only a single cursory reference to Plato’s text.[quote]

http://atlantipedia.ie/samples/winters-clyde-ahmad/

000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

Barr Fell


Pre-Columbian Old World inscriptions in the Americas?

Howard Barraclough Fell (1917-1994)

Howard Barraclough Fell (1917-1994)

Howard Barraclough Fell (1917-1994), better known as Barry Fell, has been enormously influential in the United States. He was an accomplished and respected marine biologist from Harvard whose interest in epigraphy (inscriptions) has led him to be described by his followers as “the greatest linguist of the twentieth century” and by sceptics as “a self-promoting pseudo-scientist who threatened to undo more than a century of careful progress in archaeological and anthropological research”. Neither assessment is entirely fair.

Many academic archaeologists were more than sceptical of Barry Fell’s claims: they were openly hostile to them. His claims for scientific rigour might hold for marine biology, but when it came to archaeological interpretation, he ignored the usual rules of evidence. Moreover, his publications were largely aimed at non specialists; instead of submitting his papers for publication in peer-reviewed journals (the usual procedure), he preferred to publish either in popular books or through the Epigraphic Society of North America, a society that can be characterised, not altogether unfairly, as being composed of his disciples. In other words, he shows all the characteristics of a Bad Archaeologist.

http://www.badarchaeology.com/?page_id=954#

[Cyberman]

What do you have say about Cheng He? A Chinese Muslim who travelled the world and actually visited pre-columbus america. There is a Chinese document known as Sung document records the voyage of Muslim sailors to a land called as Mu-Lan-Pi (America) in 1178. Again this was before columbus.

On Amerigo, this link seems to suggest that he converted to Islam http://www.blurtit.com/q1392129.html

However, I highly doubt that!

I'm glad you do doubt that, for if we go by some of the articles I've seen on my travels around the web, just about every famous and not-so-famous figure in history converted to Islam. Even Charles Darwin apparently converted on his deathbed; presumably when he wasn't nattering to the Lady Hope who never met him, of course.

On Cheng He, I have nothing to say. Presumably he left no extant legacy as far as America is concerned, unlike Ameryk who only gave his name to it (most likely, at least).

[Sami_23]

What do you have say about Cheng He? A Chinese Muslim who travelled the world and actually visited pre-columbus america. There is a Chinese document known as Sung document records the voyage of Muslim sailors to a land called as Mu-Lan-Pi (America) in 1178. Again this was before columbus.

On Amerigo, this link seems to suggest that he converted to Islam http://www.blurtit.com/q1392129.html

However, I highly doubt that!

I'm glad you do doubt that, for if we go by some of the articles I've seen on my travels around the web, just about every famous and not-so-famous figure in history converted to Islam. Even Charles Darwin apparently converted on his deathbed; presumably when he wasn't nattering to the Lady Hope who never met him, of course.

On Cheng He, I have nothing to say. Presumably he left no extant legacy as far as America is concerned, unlike Ameryk who only gave his name to it (most likely, at least).

Yeah, the person states that Amerigo is a Muslim with no source.

@Rayaan, sure. I thought it's Islam related since it's about Muslims but it's completely up to you.

[Minimalist]

Oh, dear....where to start.

Let's start with Barry Fell...who is one of your "scholars" that I had actually heard of...albeit for being dismissed as a crackpot.

Let's begin here.

http://www.asis.com/users/stag/americab.html

As an adjunct to the Lost Tribes teaching, Barry Fell's books, Saga America, America BC, Bronze Age America are astounding. He's dealing mostly with north America and more specifically with the US, but his research has uncovered mountains of evidence regarding the Indians on this continent. Now, I don't understand why he doesn't go a couple steps farther and identify the migrant Indians as Israelites, unless he didn't want his work to become embroiled in the Lost Tribes controversy and thereby be swept under the rug. I have reason to believe that he is aware of the fact. I don't know.

The following is from the note accompanying a picture of a rock face in New Mexico:

"The Las Lunas Decalogue is an example of early Hebrew script resembling Phoenician writing(cir. 1000 BC) under Greek influence............it consists of nine lines, reading from right to left. It is a summary of the Ten Commandments from Exodus 20:2-17."

Hold that thought. It's important.

http://www.badarchaeology.com/?page_id=959

Viewed dispassionately, the Los Lunas inscription is a clear, but well constructed forgery (for its day). Despite the claims of high antiquity, there are features of the text (such as the mixing of letter forms between two separate alphabets) that are much more likely to derive from the work of a modern forger than from an ancient Hebrew or Samaritan scribe. The evidence for its origin is poor, but a comparison with the Bat Creek Stone suggests that it was a Mormon forgery. The ‘Mormon Battalion’, which was part of the US Army during the Mexican War, is known to have marched from Santa Fe down the Rio Grande Valley, passing close by, and it is possible that this is the date of the inscription.

Note that the Mormon Battalion went marching by just about 100 years before Frank Hibben called the inscription 100 years old. (In the same article at the top.)

Mormons, you see, assclowns that they are, have this absurd notion that the "ten lost tribes" ( which we now know were not tribes and are certainly not "lost") came to America with their fucking bible horseshit. Mormons are just as about as crazy as scientologists but they certainly had a reason for wanting to prop up their horseshit with a few phony relics.

BTW, for you edification...although I doubt you are still reading at this point... here's the route of march for the Mormon Battalion during the Mexican War. Right through the heart of New Mexico.



And where is Las Lunas? Well, it is a small village near Albuquerque, NM and here, in Albuquerque is a monument to the Mormon Battalion who marched through in 1846....close enough to Frank Hibben's 100 year estimate.

http://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/cdm/singlei...Ed/id/6603

[Sami_23]

Addendum; To be fair, I did some Googling. I got bored after the first two. Make up your own minds. Sounds a lot like crackpottery of the first degree to me. Can't wait for Min's opinion (assuming he can be bothered)

Barry fell a bad Archaologist? I can't comment on that because I don't really know about his work (except for muslim discovering america stuff). That same link seems to suggest he is an influential character.

---

@Minimalist, fair enough. I don't know how to argue against that because I don't really know that much about Mr. Fell. What do you think of Jerald Dirks and Dr. Robert Dickson Crane?

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

unlike Ameryk who only gave his name to it (most likely, at least).

Really? I didn't know that. Evidence? I always thought the name 'America' came from Amerigo Vespucci . However, I am acutely aware that what we were taught as children often turns out not to be the case.


From Wiki:

The earliest known use of the name America for this landmass dates from April 25, 1507, where it was used for what is now known as South America. It first appears on a small globe map with twelve time zones, together with the largest wall map made to date, both created by the German cartographer Martin Waldseemüller in Saint-Dié-des-Vosges in France. These were the first maps to show the Americas as a land mass separate from Asia. An accompanying book, Cosmographiae Introductio, anonymous but apparently written by Waldseemüller's collaborator Matthias Ringmann,[25] states, "I do not see what right any one would have to object to calling this part [that is, the South American mainland], after Americus who discovered it and who is a man of intelligence, Amerigen, that is, the Land of Americus, or America: since both Europa and Asia got their names from women". Americus Vespucius is the Latinized version of the Florentine explorer Amerigo Vespucci's name, and America is the feminine form of Americus. Amerigen is explained as Amerigo plus gen, the accusative case of the Greek word for 'earth', and meaning 'land of Amerigo'.[25] (See etymology.) Amerigo itself is an Italian form of the medieval Latin Emericus (see also Saint Emeric of Hungary), which through the German form Heinrich (in English, Henry) derived from the Germanic name Haimirich.[26]

Vespucci was apparently unaware of the use of his name to refer to the new landmass, as Waldseemüller's maps did not reach Spain until a few years after his death.[25] Ringmann may have been misled into crediting Vespucci by the widely published Soderini Letter, a sensationalized version of one of Vespucci's actual letters reporting on the mapping of the South American coast, which glamorized his discoveries and implied that he had recognized that South America was a continent separate from Asia; in fact, it is not known what Vespucci believed on this count, and he may have died believing what Columbus had, that they had reached the East Indies in Asia rather than a new continent.[27] Spain officially refused to accept the name America for two centuries, saying that Columbus should get credit, and Waldseemüller's later maps, after he had ceased collaboration with Ringmann, did not include it; however, usage was established when Gerardus Mercator applied the name to the entire New World in his 1538 world map. Acceptance may have been aided by the "natural poetic counterpart" that the name America made with Asia, Africa, and Europa.[25]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americas

[cratehorus]

The main point is that there are many claims similair to this, if you're going to beleive the Malinese discovered America why not believe the Egyptians discovered America first? There is just as much evidence

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

why not believe the Egyptians discovered America first? There is just as much evidence

Possibly more (?) Or not :"The Nicotine Mummies"

The controversy began in the early 1990s, when a team of German researchers published a couple short papers claiming they'd found significant traces of cocaine, nicotine, and "hashish" in several Egyptian mummies, some of which were more than 3,000 years old. The papers offered a provocative insight into the personal habits of the idle rich in ancient times (conclusion: things haven't changed much in 3,000 years). Just one problem: in pre-Columbian times, so far as we know, tobacco and coca grew only in the Americas, and there was no trade between the Old World and New.

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read...ne-mummies

[Sami_23]

Guys, what do you think of this

Even Hawaii was named by Muslims who arrived on those beautiful Islands.

Lu-Lu means pearls in Arabic and Honolulu means "City of Pearls".

Many place names of Arabic origin are found in areas where native Americans lived. Even today some Cherokee words are identical to Arabic or Turkish words. For example, the Cherokee word for mother-Ana Ta -is identical to the Turkish word with the same meaning. An easily recognizable Cherokee _expression of Arabic origin is Vallah olum (Wallahu Aalam) which means "Allah Knows Best".

Sequoyah, the Cherokee Native-American leader of the nineteenth century, is best known for inventing Cherokee Syllabary in 1821.

As the leader of Western Cherokee, Sequoyah was a peace-loving man who strived to make his people literate, and made substantial effort to unite them.

He retained his customary turban and long clothing, typical of Muslims, while on official mission to Washington, D.C. for treaty negotiations. He was the subject of lectures by Samuel Lorenzo Knapp. His famous portrait was done in 1828 by Charles Bird King in Washington, D.C.

Suquoyah was not alone in wearing the Muslim dress. More than a dozen Native-American leaders of other tribes, including Chippewa, Creek, Iowa, Kansas, Miami, Potawatomi, Sauk & Fox, Seminole, Shawnee, Sioux, Winnebago, and Yuchi, wore the Muslim head dress. Some of them wore distinctly Arab head dresses. Their famous portraits published between 1835 and 1870 confirm this fact.

Some tribes used the word ALLAH to refer to the creator.

The traditional dress code for Indian women includes the kimah and long dresses. For men, the standard fare is turbans and long tops that come down to the knees. If you read any of the old books on Cherokee clothing up until 1832, you will see the men wearing turbans and the women wearing long head coverings.

The last Cherokee's chief (1866) with a Muslim name was --- Ramadhan Ibn Wati. Ramadhan Ibn Wati(popularly known as Stand Watie [1806-71]), who served as a Confederate brigadier general, surrendered his command to the United States on June 23, 1865.

His son Saladin Watie served on Southern Cherokee delegation to Washington, D.C. to sign a new treaty with the United States at the end of Civil War. He died mysteriously at the age of twenty-one. (Saladin is an anglicized name for Salahuddin, the famous Muslim Sultan who liberated Jerusalem from the crusaders in 1187).

Cities across the United States and Canada bear names that are of Indian and Islamic derivation. The name Tallahassee is alleged to have Islamic roots with the word Allah being used. In Cherokee, we refer to ourselves as Ani Getowagi or 'I am a township person " Which is 90% Arabic.

A native American Muslim told us there is a city in Arizona called "Allah".

Perhaps the greatest evidence of Islam amongst the native Americans is in the usage of the personal Holy name of the Lord of Abraham - Allah.

There is no way they could have used the word "ALLAH" unless they had direct contact with Islam since the Holy name of God has been lifted from everyone else.

[Cyberman]

unlike Ameryk who only gave his name to it (most likely, at least).

Really? I didn't know that. Evidence? I always thought the name 'America' came from Amerigo Vespucci . However, I am acutely aware that what we were taught as children often turns out not to be the case.


From Wiki:

The earliest known use of the name America for this landmass dates from April 25, 1507, where it was used for what is now known as South America. It first appears on a small globe map with twelve time zones, together with the largest wall map made to date, both created by the German cartographer Martin Waldseemüller in Saint-Dié-des-Vosges in France. These were the first maps to show the Americas as a land mass separate from Asia. An accompanying book, Cosmographiae Introductio, anonymous but apparently written by Waldseemüller's collaborator Matthias Ringmann,[25] states, "I do not see what right any one would have to object to calling this part [that is, the South American mainland], after Americus who discovered it and who is a man of intelligence, Amerigen, that is, the Land of Americus, or America: since both Europa and Asia got their names from women". Americus Vespucius is the Latinized version of the Florentine explorer Amerigo Vespucci's name, and America is the feminine form of Americus. Amerigen is explained as Amerigo plus gen, the accusative case of the Greek word for 'earth', and meaning 'land of Amerigo'.[25] (See etymology.) Amerigo itself is an Italian form of the medieval Latin Emericus (see also Saint Emeric of Hungary), which through the German form Heinrich (in English, Henry) derived from the Germanic name Haimirich.[26]

Vespucci was apparently unaware of the use of his name to refer to the new landmass, as Waldseemüller's maps did not reach Spain until a few years after his death.[25] Ringmann may have been misled into crediting Vespucci by the widely published Soderini Letter, a sensationalized version of one of Vespucci's actual letters reporting on the mapping of the South American coast, which glamorized his discoveries and implied that he had recognized that South America was a continent separate from Asia; in fact, it is not known what Vespucci believed on this count, and he may have died believing what Columbus had, that they had reached the East Indies in Asia rather than a new continent.[27] Spain officially refused to accept the name America for two centuries, saying that Columbus should get credit, and Waldseemüller's later maps, after he had ceased collaboration with Ringmann, did not include it; however, usage was established when Gerardus Mercator applied the name to the entire New World in his 1538 world map. Acceptance may have been aided by the "natural poetic counterpart" that the name America made with Asia, Africa, and Europa.[25]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americas

Well, I did admit it's not widely accepted. Ameryk was the wealthy patron of Cabot's expedition of 1497 as well as being the owner of his ship and his name was allegedly written on the maps used at the time (which conveniently seem to have been lost). Tradition would, if not actually dictate, then strongly suggest the new land should take the surname of either the discoverer or the bloke paying for the privilege. As for evidence, I can only fight Wiki with Wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Amerike