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RE: How Free Will and Omniscience Works
September 3, 2012 at 4:05 pm
(This post was last modified: September 3, 2012 at 4:07 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(September 3, 2012 at 4:02 pm)idunno Wrote: Omniscience by no means entails that you can't consider alternatives. You simply can't choose them. Appreciate the applause.
Precisely, no choosing, despite alternatives. I wasn't aware that my comment was directed at omniscience btw. Thought I was criticizing your (non-omniscient) argument, but whatevs, works just as well for me either way.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: How Free Will and Omniscience Works
September 3, 2012 at 4:06 pm
(September 3, 2012 at 4:02 pm)idunno Wrote: Omniscience by no means entails that you can't consider alternatives. You simply can't choose them. Appreciate the applause. (my bold)
So you agree that there is no free will. 
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson
God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
-- Ned Flanders
Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
-- The Rev Lovejoy
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RE: How Free Will and Omniscience Works
September 3, 2012 at 4:06 pm
(This post was last modified: September 3, 2012 at 4:07 pm by idunno.)
Atheism doesn't necessarily entail materialism. Agreed, popular is not the arbitrator of truth. If you want the orange, you'll choose the orange.
(September 3, 2012 at 4:06 pm)IATIA Wrote: (September 3, 2012 at 4:02 pm)idunno Wrote: Omniscience by no means entails that you can't consider alternatives. You simply can't choose them. Appreciate the applause. (my bold)
So you agree that there is no free will.
No, you agree that alternative possibilities aren't necessary to make free choices :p
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RE: How Free Will and Omniscience Works
September 3, 2012 at 4:08 pm
(This post was last modified: September 3, 2012 at 4:08 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
"Choosing" between A and A... 
More like "Well shit, I guess there's A or A, and so I'll have A" 
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: How Free Will and Omniscience Works
September 3, 2012 at 4:09 pm
(This post was last modified: September 3, 2012 at 4:10 pm by idunno.)
(September 3, 2012 at 4:05 pm)Rhythm Wrote: (September 3, 2012 at 4:02 pm)idunno Wrote: Omniscience by no means entails that you can't consider alternatives. You simply can't choose them. Appreciate the applause.
Precisely, no choosing, despite alternatives. I wasn't aware that my comment was directed at omniscience btw. Thought I was criticizing your (non-omniscient) argument, but whatevs, works just as well for me either way.
This whole discussion has been centered on omniscience and free will o.0
There is choosing contrary to omniscience.
(September 3, 2012 at 4:08 pm)Rhythm Wrote: "Choosing" between A and A...
More like "Well shit, I guess there's A or A, and so I'll have A"
Cake or death?
Choosing only A, between A and B
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RE: How Free Will and Omniscience Works
September 3, 2012 at 4:12 pm
(September 3, 2012 at 4:06 pm)idunno Wrote: No, you agree that alternative possibilities aren't necessary to make free choices :p
If there are no alternate possibilities then how is there a choice?  hock:
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson
God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
-- Ned Flanders
Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
-- The Rev Lovejoy
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RE: How Free Will and Omniscience Works
September 3, 2012 at 4:13 pm
(This post was last modified: September 3, 2012 at 4:16 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(September 3, 2012 at 4:09 pm)idunno Wrote: This whole discussion has been centered on omniscience and free will o.0
There is choosing contrary to omniscience. Example please? Do believe that you just said there wasn't..not but a couple posts back.
Quote:Cake or death?
Choosing only A, between A and B
Ah, but the possibility remains, and depending on who'se offering the cake I might (for example) choose death (unless I can't..you know..in the event that someone has knowledge of what I will choose, for example, - and that knowledge makes it plainly clear that I will choose cake). You aren't arguing your point anymore....you're arguing mine.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: How Free Will and Omniscience Works
September 3, 2012 at 4:14 pm
Then He would know you chose death Rythm!
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RE: How Free Will and Omniscience Works
September 3, 2012 at 4:15 pm
(September 3, 2012 at 4:06 pm)IATIA Wrote: (September 3, 2012 at 4:02 pm)idunno Wrote: Omniscience by no means entails that you can't consider alternatives. You simply can't choose them. Appreciate the applause. (my bold)
So you agree that there is no free will.
Free will ... another one of those illusions of life. This i can get my head around , but then why did we even evolve to be self-aware, is this even necessary? Or perhaps just a by-product that comes with certain intelligence.
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RE: How Free Will and Omniscience Works
September 3, 2012 at 4:16 pm
(September 3, 2012 at 4:12 pm)IATIA Wrote: (September 3, 2012 at 4:06 pm)idunno Wrote: No, you agree that alternative possibilities aren't necessary to make free choices :p
If there are no alternate possibilities then how is there a choice? hock:
There IS choice. Whatever you choose, He knows.
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