Afghanistan..troops out NOW!

[Pippy]

I've said before I am not a racist.

Calling them dirty little middle eastern countries is an act of mockery.

I believe that Iraq and Afganistan don't pose legitamate threats to us.

I don't think Hussein was as bad as Hitler. That is absurd.

Every person that has to die in this war (white or brown) is a complete waste.

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

Calling them dirty little middle eastern countries is an act of mockery.

I accept that is how you meant it because my perception is that you are essentially benign,and not at all hateful. However, the comment may also easily be interpreted as racist,which is how I saw it on first reading. (and thought out of character)

I believe that Iraq and Afghanistan don't pose legitimate threats to us.

I can't remember anyone ever suggesting they did. However,both countries DO threaten American interests.Specifically,the god given right of every American to cheap gasoline.

I don't think Hussein was as bad as Hitler. That is absurd.

Comparisons of evil are irrelevant. EG I think Stalin was a greater monster than Hitler.So what?
Hussein not as bad as Hitler in what way(s)? I think you're implying statistics rather than character. I find THAT absurd,and a little obscene.

[Pippy]

Yeah, your right about how that term could have sounded. Or even should have sounded.

I can't remember anyone ever suggesting they did.

Dotard did suggest that Afghanistan and Iraq posed a threat to a country (Be it America or Britain or any other) if only by saying that the war is just. A just war is a defensive one, and preemptive attack doesn't cut it.

It is not by statistic that I compare the level of evil in Hitler versus Hussein. It is by action and intent. I agree that Stalin or Mao take the cake.

Here's a question, not really for you Padraic... Has the quality of life (for those left alive) improved since liberation? In either country? Were there as many car bombs under Hussein?

Perpetual war for perpetual peace. We were warned about this.
If it is a war on terror, wouldn't there be a net decline in the amount of terror if the wars were ended? Or is brown people terror not as valuable as others? If I were Iraqi, wouldn't by definition the Americans be terrorists?

No War.
-Pip

[bozo]

Padraic, maybe you don't get all the news in Aus, but both PM Brown and PM Blair warned the UK population that both Afghanistan and Iraq were threats. Brown is saying that if we don't fight the Taliban on its ground we'll have to fight it at home. Blair promoted the famous dossier in the lead-up to the illegal invasion of Iraq which said Sadam could hit us in 45 minutes with those infamous wmd that were never found ( Blair even continued saying how they WOULD be found after the invasion took place ).

---

There ya go. Hiter was about to invade YOUR country. Hence why you feel strongly he had to be stopped.

Saddam was just as evil, if not more so, as Hitler was. Saddam invaded a neighboring country, but somehow he didn't need to be fought against? Somehow it was unnecessary to remove him in the same manner as the allies removed Hitler?

I care not you think everything that comes from the government, concerning Iraq and Afghan, is a lie. I care not if the gummit fudged to the people, because people are apathetic and don't give a fuk about brown people in a 'dirty middle eastern country' (fukin thinly veiled racist statement there IMO) and will only raise an eye lid if they feel them or their loved ones are threatened.

I was attemting to explain to you why WW2 was " just ". Not just our country was under direct threat, France, Poland and Russia had or were about to be invaded too. If you can't see it, that's your problem.
Saddam, of course, was considered a good guy initially, when it suited the West,may I remind you.
I futher remind you that the weapons inspection team was not allowed to finish the job before Dubya said go, causing the devastation and loss of life that followed ( plus the billions spent ). You say you are concerned for the Iraqi population and I believe you, but your military wasn't interested in counting the Iraqi population that died in the invasion and exact numbers are not known, but they are considerable. The UN presence could have stayed until the wmd were not found and the situation concerning Saddam could have been handled differently. War should always be the very last option...do you at least agree with that?
So you don't care that governments lie to wage war? Well I do. And it's nice to know you have such a splendid opinion of your fellow countryfolk.

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

If it is a war on terror, wouldn't there be a net decline in the amount of terror if the wars were ended?

Agreed.There is not now,and never has been a 'war on terror'.The term is a sound bite invented by some political press officer.

Imo Dotard's views reflect a jingoism which is common in the US and often conflated with patriotism.
There is no such thing as "a just war".



@Bozo:actually,we get a pretty good news service here. I watch over an hour a day,but seldom the commercial stations. I also read our national paper (yep we have ONE) I guess I missed the information you mentioned. I pay a little attention to our politicians,and even less to foreign ones. Blair is a war criminal, and Brown an incompetent who looks as if he seldom bathes..

[bozo]

[quote='padraic' pid='24429' dateline='1249167222']

If it is a war on terror, wouldn't there be a net decline in the amount of terror if the wars were ended?

Agreed.There is not now,and never has been a 'war on terror'.The term is a sound bite invented by some political press officer.

Imo Dotard's views reflect a jingoism which is common in the US and often conflated with patriotism.
There is no such thing as "a just war".

[Kyuuketsuki]

There is no such thing as "a just war".

Of course there is ... do you think our war (world war) against Germany was unjust? If you do then, frankly, I think you are being utterly naive.

Kyu

[bozo]

There is no such thing as "a just war".

Of course there is ... do you think our war (world war) against Germany was unjust? If you do then, frankly, I think you are being utterly naive.

Kyu

Kyu, I think something is amiss on some posts. I had pc trouble yesterday when attempting to post and it all got jumbled up. I've sorted my problem with the pc now.
If you check back I've been arguing with Dotard that WW2 was indeed a " just " war ( and that Iraq and Afghanistan are not! ).

---

[quote='padraic' pid='24429' dateline='1249167222']

If it is a war on terror, wouldn't there be a net decline in the amount of terror if the wars were ended?

Agreed.There is not now,and never has been a 'war on terror'.The term is a sound bite invented by some political press officer.

Imo Dotard's views reflect a jingoism which is common in the US and often conflated with patriotism.
There is no such thing as "a just war".

TO CLARIFY FOLKS, THIS REPLY IS NOT MINE!!! I WAS HAVING PC TROUBLE YESTERDAY WHICH MAY EXPLAIN THE COCK-UP! tHERE IS SUCH A THING AS A JUST WAR!!

[Kyuuketsuki]

Of course there is ... do you think our war (world war) against Germany was unjust? If you do then, frankly, I think you are being utterly naive.

If you check back I've been arguing with Dotard that WW2 was indeed a " just " war ( and that Iraq and Afghanistan are not! ).

So you didn't say what I answered thinking it was yours? Fair enough but I disagree with the concept of just/unjust war because it requires an international law and there can be no such thing until there is a world government, one with enough teeth to enforce its dictats ... until then all we have is a popularity contest with the more powerful nations holding the greatest sway.

Kyu

[bozo]

Of course there is ... do you think our war (world war) against Germany was unjust? If you do then, frankly, I think you are being utterly naive.

If you check back I've been arguing with Dotard that WW2 was indeed a " just " war ( and that Iraq and Afghanistan are not! ).

So you didn't say what I answered thinking it was yours? Fair enough but I disagree with the concept of just/unjust war because it requires an international law and there can be no such thing until there is a world government, one with enough teeth to enforce its dictats ... until then all we have is a popularity contest with the more powerful nations holding the greatest sway.

Kyu

Sorry, but it doesn't take any form of government for every individual to have an opinion on whether a war is " just ".