Afghanistan..troops out NOW!

[Pippy]

Organized murder.

If the financial and political elite want to wage war, they should go.

It's like watching two year olds fight violently. We can aruge if one of them is right, or just. But in reality their behavior is immature and foolish.

War is not necessary. Some people say we have to have war, that it is our human nature (As if we know what little of our nature we have left). I say so was shitting yourself, but we are expected to be better behaved than that. If we can toilet train, we can stop getting tricked into compromising our safety and livelihood for the ends of the people that already use us.

Thanks,
-Pip

[Dotard]

How else do you stop a rampaging madman or regime? You sit patiently watching him burn your neighbors homes, 'cause he's no direct threat to you or your loved ones, until he reaches your home before you attempt to stop him?

Yeah, that's a plan.

[Pippy]

But which madman is it my responsobility to fight? The one in Afganistan, or the one here? If I believe that both sides of the conflict can't claim moral imperitive, then both leaders are "madmen" to me. One is a madman in another country far away with no power over me. The other is a democratically elected (may be) leader of a country that I represent and help pay for.

What is the difference between us fighting them because they fucked with us and are evil, and them fighting us because we fucked with them and we are evil?

That the best course of action to reach a world where there is no rampaging madmen anywhere, is to try to disallow them in your own country. You have to pick you battles wisely. If the Afgans didn't allow madmen, and we didn't allow madmen, we wouldn't have to fight each other, only police ourselves. But if they do allow rampaging madmen, how are we better to react with the same?

I am trying to purport that the same argument you are using could be used by middle easterners to the same effect. It is rhetoric justifying senselessness.

I am trying to present a mind frame that might move towards the end of the cycle of madmen, you seem to be arguing a system of perpetuity.

Thank you,
-Pip

[Dotard]

I am trying to present a mind frame that might move towards the end of the cycle of madmen,
Thank you,
-Pip

I seemed to have missed that part. How to do that? Allow them to run rampant until direct threat to you?

[Kyuuketsuki]

So you didn't say what I answered thinking it was yours? Fair enough but I disagree with the concept of just/unjust war because it requires an international law and there can be no such thing until there is a world government, one with enough teeth to enforce its dictats ... until then all we have is a popularity contest with the more powerful nations holding the greatest sway.

Sorry, but it doesn't take any form of government for every individual to have an opinion on whether a war is " just ".

And one person's opinion doesn't make a war just or unjust ... again we are back to the concept of a popularity contest.

Kyu

[bozo]

So you didn't say what I answered thinking it was yours? Fair enough but I disagree with the concept of just/unjust war because it requires an international law and there can be no such thing until there is a world government, one with enough teeth to enforce its dictats ... until then all we have is a popularity contest with the more powerful nations holding the greatest sway.

Sorry, but it doesn't take any form of government for every individual to have an opinion on whether a war is " just ".

And one person's opinion doesn't make a war just or unjust ... again we are back to the concept of a popularity contest.

Kyu

Everyone is entitled to an opinion and you agreed WW2 was " just " earlier in this thread.

[Kyuuketsuki]

And one person's opinion doesn't make a war just or unjust ... again we are back to the concept of a popularity contest.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion and you agreed WW2 was " just " earlier in this thread.

Yeah, I said !I think" which clearly says it was my opinion, to which I am entitled ... it don't make me right though!

Kyu

[Minimalist]

How else do you stop a rampaging madman or regime?

Well....in our case we elected Obama.

[Pippy]

What if he turns out to be just as mad?

[Minimalist]

He have to go some to top Bush's record of starting two useless wars.