OK Christians. your chance. Convince me of God.

[Drich]

Please don't be evasive this time. Are you saying God is:

What I have asked you to do is if you believe these things to provide book chapter and verse. This is not a hard request if you are repersenting a biblically accurate portrate of God. I have absolutly no issue in answer your questions, but I do ask that you first answer mine.

Please answer the question and don't just go on to something as you frequently do.

Quid pro quoe Clarice, Quid pro quoe.

Are you speaking in tongues? I don't understand what you are saying.

Here is the sunday school version: If God knocked on your door and presented Himself to you then you really don't have a choice on whether you believe in Him or not do you?
If God takes away that choice, then what is the purpose of giveing you a life apart from His known glory with the charge to choose your own eternal destiny?

Do you ask, seek and knock on the door of Allah or Brahmin, or Buddha?

I was born into a budhist family so I did knock for some time at buddha's door. i have studied the Quran in the home of a cleric for some time, and i don't know who the other one is..

Do you seek the existence of fairies, leprechauns and pixies? What I can't understand is how you can't extricate yourself from your obviously highly brainwashed position just to see what the rational world is thinking. When you write this way, it's very obvious to those of us who aren't so terribly brainwashed that you are talking rot. But interestingly, you can't see it and you think you are persecuted for Christ and you smile to yourself, believing no doubt that the Lord is preparing a beautiful mansion in the sky for you. If you were Muslim, you'd believe Allah is selecting 77 virgins for you. Don't you see how laughably deluded supernatural-believing Christians and Muslims are?

To some yes, to other not so much. the problem with paint with a broad brush is that you often times you miss spots.

[Mystic]

Guys I think as far as the Christian God...it goes like this:

If you desire the light, and are good people, not evil people not desiring the light and preferring darkness over the light, then we will come to believe in Jesus and know Christianity is true through the holy spirit.


I think Atheists generally are good people. I think the same is true of Christians.

But if the Bible is true, then our focus should simply be upon being good people. If we are good people and love goodness, love, and virtues (the light), we should be eventually guided towards the true religion.

The same is true of Islam. It says in Quran that God only misguides the unjust/transgressors and that he is with the "good people".

Therefore, if Islam is true, and we are good, we should be guided to Islam.

On the other hand, no matter what proofs, Quran says God will never guide the unjust people and the bible says bad people will prefer the darkness over the light.

So from this perspective, we should only try to be good people. Then it's God job to guide us.

I believe Atheists generally are good people. So I don't buy any of this.

But what's the point of arguing, when according to these religions, we are blind and deaf and hence no proofs would convince us.

They believe they been given spiritual vision we don't have.... demanding proof from them is not going to lead anywhere.

Christians always say be a shinning example. If we are shinning examples of goodness, they will be convinced that God doesn't have the right to torture us in hell let alone that God should not do so out of love and compassion.

If we can prove Christianity wrong from objective angles, we should do it, and we should probably avoid the subjective attacks (like on Christian morality) that will just make them think we are arrogant.

[FallentoReason]

I don't think 'god' cares about morality but rather belief in him.

I'm sure it can be justified that all the crusaders are in heaven right now.

[Mystic]

I don't think 'god' cares about morality but rather belief in him.

I'm sure it can be justified that all the crusaders are in heaven right now.

It's one of those contradictions.

Where if you believe, you automatically saved. Yet why aren't others saved, well because they are bad. So what happens when you believe and are bad?

Anyways, the same contradiction is in Islam. It's one of the 28 issues I had with Quran that I wrote about here: http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?...ith-quran/

[Ryantology]

Let me put it this way. If you were invited to the White House for a presidential dinner with all the world leaders present, would you demand a change of venue and demand to the world leaders that they meet you on their terms? If you did how many world leaders do you think would meet you on your terms simply because you demanded it?

I would not demand a change of venue without a good reason, but whatever. That is a terrible comparison.

A God who willingly allows a person to die a terrible death in spite of having the power to prevent it, for whatever possible justification he might offer, is a God not worth the spit of a man's curse, much less his worship. A being with that capacity who fails at the moral obligation of helping his own children in pain and terror (or outright preventing it) is a creature uniquely unqualified to dictate morals to me.

You can say that I can't judge a God by the morals of men. I say, in response to that, that a creature who can't pass the presumably poor test of my mere human morals is in no position to presume that his morals are superior to mine.

[Minimalist]

You do know in Christianity it is not the 'Christian' who is to convince you of anything right?

Bullshit, Drippy. You clowns are always out there pushing for jesus.

It is, in fact, the reason you are here.

[Puddleglum]

So.. You Choose not to believe in God untill your prerequsits have been met? Sounds like a familiar story.

Oddly I make all me belief decisions that way. If someone gives me a tip about the stock market ( a regular occurrence) I do my due diligence and check out the company involved before I invest. Are you claiming that I shouldn't do this and just trust the tip? Why?

Were we not put on this earth to make an eternal choice as to where we WANT to spend eternity?

What a strange question to ask an Atheist! We don't believe we have any such choice. We live then die and no longer exist and that's an end to the matter.

Everyone would make their desision on the basis of self preservation and Love/Want for God would have nothing to do with their desision.

But we don't love god to start with. We cannot love what doesn't exist.

You have acknoweledged God is all knowing and All powerful, and yet you command Him to seek you to save Your soul?

Know she has acknowledged that YOU believe God to be omnipotent and omniscient not that he actually is.

If you were invited to the White House for a presidential dinner with all the world leaders present, would you demand a change of venue and demand to the world leaders that they meet you on their terms? If you did how many world leaders do you think would meet you on your terms simply because you demanded it?


If I was invited to the white house I would at least expect it to be there. If I turned up and there was nothing there at all but some staffer who told me to close my eyes and just believe that it existed I would have good reason to doubt it.


Your disbelief or rather you ablity to disbelieve is apart of God's plan.

How do you know this? Did he tell you a or is it in the bible? If I don't believe then according to you then it is God’s plan that I don't believe. So if it is actually his plan that I don;t believe and then he tortures my soul to eternity for not believing then he is a cunt,, the most evil being that ever existed. Then your worship of him is not 'love' unless your love is an ultimately perverse sort of Stockholm syndrome

Our only charge is to worship God with everything we are, and can be. These people are worship God the best way they know how. What they are doing is not wrong, for some it is what they need to transition from the life they live to where they want to be.

So the people annoying me in the street are just worshipping God? They aren;t really trying to convert me for my benefit they are just stacking up points! Thanks for for the clarification.

If He asked you driectly then wouldn't it scew your answer? Just a little bit? Would the need for self preservation over ride your hearts true desires? If so then why ask you directly? As it is He 'asks' in a book that you can easily dismiss allowing you to maintain your objectivity.

But lots of books advertise different gods. Why should I chose one that is utterly full of absurdities, lies, historicity and calls to genocide? The very least he could do is make rational.

do you guys even think things through? If your dog did not 'worship you' then he would be free to poop, pee, hump, chew, eat, destroy/kill where or what ever he liked. We consider dogs with a strong will of their own as 'bad dogs.' Dogs who serve and yield their wills to their master's, are dogs we all like and want around our families. If a dog mauled you child you would have him put down. But why? he was just excersizing his own will apart from yours.

Fuck ..you are a fascist. I consider a bad dog one that attacks people for no reason, good dogs are ones that display normal dog pack behavior. All my dogs have strong wills. They are my companions not my slaves. I have rescued 4 street dogs. They are free to leave if they wish and they don't because I give them love, food and shelter, in return they give me love and protection. I don't train them to do tricks.Thye don't maul us because that isn't normal behaviour. Of course we are a vast;ly bigger threat to dogs than they are to us.

I bet you approve of beating children.

Wow you are the second one to say something like this.

perhaps there is something in it.

[Polaris]

You do know in Christianity it is not the 'Christian' who is to convince you of anything right?

Bullshit, Drippy. You clowns are always out there pushing for jesus.

It is, in fact, the reason you are here.

Some of us are here to ensure you guys keep to academic standards.

[Minimalist]

Academic standards and the fucking bible are a non sequitur.

If I was invited to the white house I would at least expect it to be there. If I turned up and there was nothing there at all but some staffer who told me to close my eyes and just believe that it existed I would have good reason to doubt it.

A rep point for this sentence alone, Puddle. Priceless!

[Polaris]

Thanks for proving my point.