And We're Back ... Awe Hell

[The Grand Nudger]

I wouldn't know, I don't know anything about magic...believe that's your AOE.

[pocaracas]

If mass is a property of matter and there was no matter at one point, what caused the magical gravity field that supposedly was all that was needed to create the BB?

You are aware that mass equals energy times a constant, right? the famous E=mc^2

There are forms of energy which are not mass.... and it is possible to convert from one to the other.
Now if we could just harness that mechanism.... scotty, beam me up!

[Minimalist]

Why would a logical person think that God would punish the "wicked" for eternity?

Why do you think the superstitious fools who concocted this shit were "logical?"

[Cinjin]

Drich,
The rest of your post was just a bunch of meaningless blathering and I don't want to go around in circles hearing the same old lies you've been telling. However, THIS did catch my eye and I wanted to touch on it for just a moment.

Hell is emptyness. This emptyness this pitch dark tar like void consumes one like a fire would. meaning the panic and the emotional distress, the desperation to get away, all of the primal flight emotions magnified times 1000 is what it is like to be consumed by the nothingness. As you fall/tossed into this void and the light of creation dims you writhe in the nothingness being consumed by the pitch, you scream through your tightly chenched jaw at a frantic pace.(gnashing of teeth) Then you hear the screams and wails of the other members of Hell. just before the last light of creation is taken away, I realized that this panic this torment would be forever. Then the last little bit of creation is removed (your sanity or the ablity to maintain control over your own mind) and you are left as a primal scared frantic paniced lump...

Did you get this from a movie or some idiot from behind a pulpit? Cause it's good and terrifying ... if you're an imbecile.

Please do tell me about how you've been to hell and know all these incredible details about descending into the depths of your god's hand-made torture dungeon. You did leave out the burning fires ya know. I'm just sayin, if you want to scare the shit outta people, never forget the flesh burning off your body. That other stuff is good and scary, but people know they would eventually get use to it and without searing pain, your god really won't get his eternal revenge will he? I think not.

We all know you pull shit outta your ass, but that detailed description of hell was even a bit much for you. Common man, we're not stupid. You can't go and make up stories about a place that everyone knows you've never been. Especially when your fellow christards have completely different descriptions of hell from their own near-death experiences.


Basically, what I'm saying here is ... Fail, just an epic fail.

[catfish]

Here's something for those who think hell is real (bolded by me):

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?sea...ersion=NIV

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2 Peter 2:1-4
New International Version (NIV)

False Teachers and Their Destruction
2 But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2 Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. 3 In their greed these teachers will exploit you with fabricated stories. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.

4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell,[a] putting them in chains of darkness[b.] to be held for judgment;
Footnotes:
a.2 Peter 2:4 Greek Tartarus
b.2 Peter 2:4 Some manuscripts in gloomy dungeons

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AND

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?sea...ersion=NIV

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2 Timothy 4:3-4
New International Version (NIV)

3 For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4 They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.

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[Zen Badger]

Why would a "logical" person believe.....in a god? Let alone what god does with it's human refuse? We're clearly operating under different definitions for the word.

Why would a logical person believe in a magical gravity field?

Logical people don't believe in gravity, it is not something that you have a choice in.

Illogical person ...."Oh I don't believe in gravity"

Then plummets to his death ten storeys below.

[KichigaiNeko]

catfish...you iz one stoopid hooman!!

YOU don't "BELIEVE" in a 'magical gravity field?? FANTASTIC!

I DARE you to jump off a ten storey building and let your god save you!

[Cyberman]

Gravity is magical? Seriously, millennia of accumulated wisdom and that's what we've produced?

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[Reasonable_Jeff]

I have no problem admitting that the Bible is flawed. And "hell" is NOT in the Bible, sheole, Gehenna, Hades and Tartaroos are.

Hello Catfish, could you please elaborate on what you do believe regarding those words?

It seems to me that your argument is something as follows.

Let's imagine that instead of hell we are saying a Blue Jay. You seem to be saying that if someone was writing trying to describe a Blue Jay, but they never called it by the proper name.....then the Blue Jay doesn't exist?

Please correct my probably erred understanding of your position.


Also regarding the use of the word Hades..the NT was written in Greek. Why wouldn't they use a Greek word for Hell? It would convey the meaning that they wanted to convey.

Using language common to the people is a method Paul also employs when he addressed the crowd in Mars Hill:

Acts 17:28
English Standard Version (©2001)
for “‘In him we live and move and have our being’; as even some of your own poets have said, “‘For we are indeed his offspring.

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How can a loving God throw people into Hell?

God possess more than one attribute. Above all other attributes He is Holy.

Hell is God's justice and His Holiness on display.

For those of you unfamiliar with the Old Testament the Jews carried around "The Ark of the Covenant" that housed some of their holy items and the presence of the Lord dwelt in the Ark....it was Holy because of God presence with it.

The ark was stolen during battle and finally when the Israelite's got it back...God killed those that stared at it too long.

1 Samuel 6:19-20
English Standard Version (ESV)
19 And he struck some of the men of Beth-shemesh, because they looked upon the ark of the Lord. He struck seventy men of them, and the people mourned because the Lord had struck the people with a great blow. 20 Then the men of Beth-shemesh said, “Who is able to stand before the Lord, this holy God? And to whom shall he go up away from us?”

Or later when the ark was going to fall off of the wagon into the dirt a man named Uzzah tried to prevent it by touching the ark.

2 Samuel 6:6-7
English Standard Version (ESV)
6 And when they came to the threshing floor of Nacon, Uzzah put out his hand to the ark of God and took hold of it, for the oxen stumbled. 7 And the anger of the Lord was kindled against Uzzah, and God struck him down there because of his error, and he died there beside the ark of God.


God is Holy, He is completed superior to us in every way, He is the King of Kings.

In Isa 6 Isaiah describes His encounter with God.

Isaiah 6:2-4
English Standard Version (ESV)
2 Above him stood the seraphim. Each had six wings: with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew. 3 And one called to another and said:

“Holy, holy, holy is the Lord of hosts;
the whole earth is full of his glory!”[a]
4 And the foundations of the thresholds shook at the voice of him who called, and the house was filled with smoke.

Above all attributes God is Holy, He is set apart. We cannot approach Him or stand in His presence unless we are covered in the blood of the lamb.

Romans 5:9-10
English Standard Version (ESV)
9 Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. 10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life.

[Undeceived]

Thanks, catfish, for the verse.
2 Peter 2:4 "For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment"

I believe some of my Christian brothers have been lead astray in saying God did not create hell. God created all realms. Here's he stance most theologians take on the matter: God created hell for Satan and his followers. People have a choice to join God or to join Satan. Notice that Satan and his fallen angels (demons) are being 'held for judgment.' They have not been judged; they are being allowed to roam free in the world, influencing people. Hell may or may not be a physical place, but it is at the very least a spiritual place (its hard to imagine Satan being held by a merely physical realm). Revelation 20 depicts the final judgements:

10 "And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever."
15 "Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire."

Satan will be thrown back in the place created for him, and so will unbelievers. They will be tormented both by Satan and in finding themselves separated from all love and happiness. Earth is a place of partial goodness, because of God's presence and hand in His creation, weighed against the effects of sin. But there is no presence of God in hell, meaning love and pleasure and all good things cease to exist for the judged unbeliever. In the absence of our Source and Creator there is only suffering, for nothing else exists to fill the void. Love God and He will treat you as a son. Hate Him and He will place you in a realm where there is no love, as you wish. But God desires all men to come to Him. As 2 Peter 3:9 says, "The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance."